Can you swap Bloodline Granted spells with regular spells on your list?


Rules Discussion


So I made a character Angelic Bloodline Sorcerer. And as my character didn't like to be in the spotlight and still wanted to be a healer. I chose Pharasma as my Diety.

I think several people are already figuring out my problem. While not being able to use Divine Lance was a problem I could make the rest of my cantrips work so I didn't really have a problem with my choice of deity.

But recently I started to look ahead and I noticed that several spells that rely on your Deity's Alignment are granted to you by your Bloodline. Which means that even though I follow a TN Deity because of the Bloodline I chose I'm stuck with a spell in my repository I can't use. I talked to my GM and he said to reach out to Paizo. But after reading a post that the way to reach the design team was by making a Forum post on the issue I decided to see if one of the forum post had the answer I was looking for.

I've read several forum posts and while none of them have a member of Paizo respond to them at least that I can tell. What I seem to get in the end seemed to hint that while you can't retrain bloodline spells. Bloodline spells is really just the Focus spell. Where Bloodline Granted spells are different. But with that ambiguity came the question. Can you spend your spell retrain to grab a different spell from the Divine list? Or are you only allowed to heighten a spell from the Bloodline Granted list?

To be honest I was hoping in the new Erata. The Design team would have realized that maybe having those spells that have alignment based Deity casting Bloodline Granted spells was restrictive to character creativity decision and would have swapped them out or given an Alternative list.

Thanks in advance for the feedback on this question


Greenlight wrote:

I talked to my GM and he said to reach out to Paizo. But after reading a post that the way to reach the design team was by making a Forum post on the issue I decided to see if one of the forum post had the answer I was looking for.

I've read several forum posts and while none of them have a member of Paizo respond to them at least that I can tell.

Not entirely sure where you are getting this idea from. It is possible that someone from the dev team may read this, it is not likely that they will respond here.

What you get instead is the community.

And what I will tell you is that no, you cannot swap out your bloodline's Granted Spells. Yes the bloodline's Bloodline Spells are the focus spells. But where it is talking about swapping spells from your Repertoire and says "you can't swap out bloodline spells" that is talking about the spell slot spells that would be put in your Repertoire. You could make an argument that the rule writer used the wrong word there, but you really can't make an argument that they are talking about focus spells in a rule about Repertoire spell swapping.

However, the Paizo dev team did also give us - front and center - a rule called the Ambiguous Rules rule.

Ambiguous Rules wrote:
If a rule seems to have wording with problematic repercussions or doesn’t work as intended, work with your group to find a good solution, rather than just playing with the rule as printed.

So if your Sorcerer is going to end up with spells that do nothing, but can't be swapped out - the GM needs to step in and work with you to find a way to make your character concept work as intended rather than just telling you 'tough, play something else'.

I would work with you to pick different thematically appropriate spells for the bloodline's Granted Spells entries for the ones that don't work with TN deity. For Pharasma perhaps Disrupt Undead would be a better choice of cantrip. You still wouldn't be able to swap it out through retraining, but at least if you do happen to come across some undead, you could use it on them.


So I got this idea from the FAQ on Errata post from 2015 which is still the top result.

FAQ on Errata wrote:
"After that point, we primarily rely on the FAQ system and forum threads to point out errors in our books that need to be addressed. When people on the forums notice problems, post threads, and click the FAQ button, we get notified through our system. About once per week we take a look at some of the most pressing issues, answering them as needed and noting many of them in our corrections file.

But I think at least getting the communities consensus would at least give me and my GM something to work from so this still works.

Go to FAQ on Errata

That being said I always forget about the Ambiguous Rule as we normally end on the GM has final say one.

breithauptclan wrote:
I would work with you to pick different thematically appropriate spells for the bloodline's Granted Spells entries for the ones that don't work with TN deity. For Pharasma perhaps Disrupt Undead would be a better choice of cantrip. You still wouldn't be able to swap it out through retraining, but at least if you do happen to come across some undead, you could use it on them.

Yeah I can see where this is coming from. They atleast didn't make Divine Lance Bloodline Granted spell. So I don't need to make that paticular swap.

So at this point you would grab a spell off the Divine Spell list that seemed Neutral or fit Phrasma and have it take the place of the bloodline Granted Spell. For Example Read Omens or Remove Curse instead of Divine Wrath.

Horizon Hunters

Unless you're playing in Pathfinder Society, the GM has free reign on any changes. If the GM is asking you to ask Paizo that's not going to happen.

However, as long as you're not playing in PFS you have my blessing to change the spells for more appropriate ones (not that it's actually worth anything).


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Greenlight wrote:

So I got this idea from the FAQ on Errata post from 2015 which is still the top result.

FAQ on Errata wrote:
"After that point, we primarily rely on the FAQ system and forum threads to point out errors in our books that need to be addressed. When people on the forums notice problems, post threads, and click the FAQ button, we get notified through our system. About once per week we take a look at some of the most pressing issues, answering them as needed and noting many of them in our corrections file.

Yeah, but that would make a lot more sense if we actually had a 'FAQ' button here on the PF2 rules forum like we do for the PF1 and Starfinder ones.

Greenlight wrote:
So at this point you would grab a spell off the Divine Spell list that seemed Neutral or fit Phrasma and have it take the place of the bloodline Granted Spell. For Example Read Omens or Remove Curse instead of Divine Wrath.

Basically, yes. Though I would also point out that the Granted Spells don't even have to be from the same tradition. Demonic bloodline has Divine tradition, but gives Disintegrate (an Arcane only spell) as the 6th level spell.


Even if you are playing PFS you can usually use downtime to retrain some character options like your deity choice. You can't retrain your bloodline, but you can buy the Rebuild boon for a pittance of ACP to change that and anything else you want

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