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Is the Occultist archetype for the arcanist worth getting?
It looks really cool to be able to summon 1 monster as a standard action, but the cost to actually use it seems to increase exponentially, when compared to the amount of arcane reservoir points the arcanist gets per day.
The archetype also lacks any feat support.
Lastly, does feats like summon good monsters or summon neutral monsters work with the occultist or summoner's summon monster (sp)?
Get the Consume Magic Items exploit and you can summon plenty as an occultist. Summon Good Monster etc. specify that they work with Summon Monster n, so work fine with spell like abilities which replicate those spells.
In short: yes.
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The cost is linear.
As for being worth it, remember that the duration is 1 minute per level. This makes it practical to use them for non-combat utility such as an earth elemental scouting via earth glide.
Yes, it is a very strong archetype.
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I've a PFS Occultist Arcanist up to level 8 and he's a beast!
I took Consume Magic Items, but it's rare I find stuff I can consume and when I do, it's tough to sell the party on it. Still, a few scrolls of 2nd level spells end up being a good thing to have on hand.Then again, I haven't really run out of arcane pool.
You'll suffer early on, summoning celestial (or fiendish!) eagles to harry foes and make mages and archers unhappy, but once you hit 3rd and can summon small earth elementals, you really come into your own. At level 9 or so, your options become incredibly vast, with a slew of SLAs at your fingertips thanks to your summoned monster minions.
I am making my character for PFS. Do you recommend the summon neutral or summon good monsters feats?
I'm currently going for the standard spell focus (conj), augment summoning, superior summons feats, but what other feats should I go for?
Also are the summon affinity rings, worth getting?
Finally, even with the summons, an arcanist is still a 9-level caster. Should I focus on doing something else, other then summoning? Evocation for damage? Buffing?
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You are intended to consume your own spells out of combat to fill your pool up. Consider the value of paying a first and second level spell to cast a 3rd level spell, when you can't even cast normal third level spells yet. No matter what your level, you should start a fight off with at least enough points to to cast your SLA twice, plus whatever other uses you have for points in a combat.
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@Melkiador,
Thats good to know. Just read more into the class and the section on converting spells into pool. I don't know why I kept thinking you can only do that at the start of the day or can only use items to fill up your pool.
Other than summoning, are there any other roles I should look out for?
I know arcanists can't prepare as wide a selection of spells as a wizard, so what other role should I focus on? I'm leaning towards just buffing, but should I focus on damaging spells too?
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You should get Quick Study as quickly as you can. This would allow you to switch out a spell for a utility spell (say, Scrying) for a exploit point whenever you need it. Make sure to carry backup spellbooks.
As for your questions:
Rings of Summon Affinity are extremely powerful. Aeon is a particularly awesome choice for mid levels, and angel at high levels if you don't have the summon good monsters feat.
Summon Good Monster is highly recommended. It adds a ton of great options for Summon Monster - for example, the Foo Lion. Summon Neutral is good as well, if not as good as Summon Good.
Expanded Summon Monster can also be nice for getting additional options into your list. With Summon Monster, diversity is king, so having more summons to choose from never really hurts if you have the feats to spare.
Evolved Summon Monster can give your summons more options. If you regularly choose to summon single monsters for simplicity, another set of claws or a swim speed could mean a lot.
The Monster Summoner's Handbook adds quite a few options for summoning. See if your GM allows you to use the Rod of Giant Summoning with your SLA, and if he does, use it wisely so he doesn't regret his decision :p.
Finally, this might be helpful if you're going Occultist:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16dZ5SBQMS1Yi6531tXOkKE_rmXEwn4VFacOEQKi HA5E/edit?pli=1
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As an arcanist, you are a 9th level full caster - as such, I recommend taking Potent Magic as your first exploit at level 3 so that you can increase the DC of your save-or-suck spells, or increasing the CL of your other ones.
What you focus on with the rest of your feats is really up to you. You can do a bit of crafting as an arcanist, or take lots of metamagic and metamix it into your spells. Even without explicit feat investment, you can still perform admirably in other areas without focusing on them with just your exploits alone.
I don't know why I kept thinking you can only do that at the start of the day or can only use items to fill up your pool.
It's a really commonly missed thing. I think it's partly because casters are so attached to their spells, that burning them up out of combat just feels wrong somehow. But even for non-occultists, burning your low spells to empower your higher level spells is usually a good option. The occultist is just more extreme about it.
You should get Quick Study as quickly as you can. This would allow you to switch out a spell for a utility spell (say, Scrying) for a exploit point whenever you need it.
Mild disagreement on the Quick Study. Pick your spells like you would as a wizard and leave one or more open to be filled in as the need presents itself.
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You should get Quick Study as quickly as you can. This would allow you to switch out a spell for a utility spell (say, Scrying) for a exploit point whenever you need it.Mild disagreement on the Quick Study. Pick your spells like you would as a wizard and leave one or more open to be filled in as the need presents itself.
Except that takes 15 minutes. If you need it now 1 round will usually work out better. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying there's more than one way of looking at it.
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Thanks for all the info.
Is there any other ways to increase the number of pool points other than sucking power from items?
Also, if I'm a good alignment Occultist, I can still summon evil monsters right? I'm asking, cos I'm a little worried about spells like protection from good. I have seen it locking out a wizard-summoner's pets from attacking a target before.
@Felyndiira,
Could you repost the link? It seems to be broken. I can't get the link to work.
Is there any other ways to increase the number of pool points other than sucking power from items?
Also, if I'm a good alignment Occultist, I can still summon evil monsters right? I'm asking, cos I'm a little worried about spells like protection from good. I have seen it locking out a wizard-summoner's pets from attacking a target before.
FCB on Gnome. Elf increases total number of points, but not the amount you gain a day.
If you are worried about Protection from Evil, take a few spells with your spell slots that buff the fighters. It isn't like the only thing you can do is summon -- you've got access to the full wizard list and a nice way to bump the DC via arcane pool.
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@Felyndiira,
Could you repost the link? It seems to be broken. I can't get the link to work.
Sure.
I really like the Occultist Archetype. Its powerful, flavorful, adds a little something a regular Arcanist wouldn't be able to do and it doesn't cost you too much stuff. I prefer it over the regular version, really. The only downside is it delays your Exploits which in turn delays access to the Extra Exploit feat.
I do really like Quick Study. The Arcanist has a limited number of prepared spells forcing a choice between utility and combat spells. With Quick Study you don't have to worry about that choice. It just expands your versatility and adaptability a great deal, far beyond leaving slots open ever would.
Consume Magic Items fulfills a similar function, really, provided you have the items and willingness to sacrifice them. I like to get Scribe Scroll to fuel it. It allows you to really use all of your exploits instead of merely relying on your SM SLA.
Instead of the Familiar Exploit you might want to consider the Bloodline Development Exploit choosing the Arcane Bloodline. It also grants a familiar. It won't gain abilities as you level beyond the first, but it'll still gain everything else, and you can still get the Improved Familiar feat. The choice is reasonable because it allows you to use some of the other abilities the bloodline provides if desired, Metamagic Adept specifically, for a mere single point from your reservoir.
Instead of Dimensional Slide you might want to consider School Understanding choosing Conjuration (Teleportation) instead. They offer different kinds of utility, so I often end up with both.
Personally, I rarely take feats to enhance my summoned monsters. I prefer using them for their abilities rather than their physical combat value, allowing me to spend my feats on other stuff, like Extra Exploit. I also think there's already plenty of utility in the regular SM line that I don't feel the need to expand the list with feats either.
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I really like the Occultist Archetype. Its powerful, flavorful, adds a little something a regular Arcanist wouldn't be able to do and it doesn't cost you too much stuff. I prefer it over the regular version, really. The only downside is it delays your Exploits which in turn delays access to the Extra Exploit feat.
I do really like Quick Study. The Arcanist has a limited number of prepared spells forcing a choice between utility and combat spells. With Quick Study you don't have to worry about that choice. It just expands your versatility and adaptability a great deal, far beyond leaving slots open ever would.
Consume Magic Items fulfills a similar function, really, provided you have the items and willingness to sacrifice them. I like to get Scribe Scroll to fuel it. It allows you to really use all of your exploits instead of merely relying on your SM SLA.Instead of the Familiar Exploit you might want to consider the Bloodline Development Exploit choosing the Arcane Bloodline. It also grants a familiar. It won't gain abilities as you level beyond the first, but it'll still gain everything else, and you can still get the Improved Familiar feat. The choice is reasonable because it allows you to use some of the other abilities the bloodline provides if desired, Metamagic Adept specifically, for a mere single point from your reservoir.
Instead of Dimensional Slide you might want to consider School Understanding choosing Conjuration (Teleportation) instead. They offer different kinds of utility, so I often end up with both.
Personally, I rarely take feats to enhance my summoned monsters. I prefer using them for their abilities rather than their physical combat value, allowing me to spend my feats on other stuff, like Extra Exploit. I also think there's already plenty of utility in the regular SM line that I don't feel the need to expand the list with feats either.
Won't using Bloodline Development Exploit (Arcane) limit you to a familiar that is permanently stuck at lv 1?
For those considering this archetype, make sure you do not dump charisma. With the recently released errata, Consume Spells and Consume Magic Items are now limited to a number of times per day equal to the charisma modifier. This can start to become very limiting at higher levels. Starting with at least a 14 in charisma seems to be the minimum now, allowing you to get a +2 item later for 3 consume spells and 3 consume items per day. You may find it very hard to get enough arcane reservoir points to use your summons at higher levels if you do not do this.
The occultist is much weaker if the new errata is enforced. There is no difference between having 7 cha or 13 cha for determining consuming spell or magic per day.
Without refreshing arcane points, an occultist cannot perform more than one SLA summon per day after level 5. The Extra Reservoir feat is now better than Consume Magic Item and will give you two SLA summons until 9th level with no spell consumption.
IMO, the trade-offs just aren't worth it over going a standard conjuration wizard with the Acadamae Graduate trait or a base arcanist. With points becoming much more limited, an occultist will have almost no points left over for the many excellent exploits other arcanists can wield.
Won't using Bloodline Development Exploit (Arcane) limit you to a familiar that is permanently stuck at...
Yeah, I tried to say that but somehow mangled that idea into incoherency XD Its definitely better than the Familiar exploit if you're going to get Improved Familiar anyway (and wasn't planning on taking Bloodline Development for another bloodline, obviously). Its arguably better if you value the additional abilities the Arcane bloodline gets. A familiar stuck at level 1 still gets full use of your skills and still gets half your hitpoints, just doesn't get additional abilities or increased intelligence. Sure thats nice, but I don't consider it necessary. If you don't want Improved Familiar or use the extra bloodline abilities obviously the Familiar exploit will be better.
There's also the option of taking a level of Sorceror for the complete bloodline and so a full Familiar. If you strive for an optimized build I'd advise against this though.The new errata does really harm the Arcanist and the Occultist in particular. I'm not so sure its worth it now...
It is still worth it, it just has the hidden Charisma requirement. Standard action summoning is really strong. It allows you to do things like ready an action to summon a creature.
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With the new errata, the Occultist archetype is really too weak to work properly.
I feel thew new errata is overkill on the Cha requirements. It seems a heavy handed approach to making the Arcanist more "sorcerer", whereas pre-errata, the arcanist was decidedly more wizard in feel.
It just doesn't scale properly into the higher levels. :(
The sad thing is that it really affects the Occultist archetype badly, whereas in the past, you need to give up your spells to fuel the summon monster ability, now you can't even do that without giving up your strongest spells, which scales badly.
I may just take a plunge into the cheese pool that is Occult Adventures and make a psychic character instead for this character.
It's still worth it by far. What you lost is your ability to chew up all of your lowest level spells for nice high-level summons. It's just a little better balanced of an archetype now. Now you have to lose higher levels slots.
Start with 16 INT, 16 CHA. That'll pretty much guarantee you 4 standard-action summons, mins/lvl per day if you chew up three of your 2nd-highest level slots every day. In return for those 3 slots, you get 4 of the best spell line in the game, in the highest slot available, one level early half the time.
The trade is definitely in your favor.
Your other option is Academae Graduate conjurer wizard for standard action summons. You have to make a fort save, and you're trading highest-level slots for highest-level summons...not quite as favorable a trade.
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It's still worth it by far. What you lost is your ability to chew up all of your lowest level spells for nice high-level summons. It's just a little better balanced of an archetype now. Now you have to lose higher levels slots.
Start with 16 INT, 16 CHA. That'll pretty much guarantee you 4 standard-action summons, mins/lvl per day if you chew up three of your 2nd-highest level slots every day. In return for those 3 slots, you get 4 of the best spell line in the game, in the highest slot available, one level early half the time.
The trade is definitely in your favor.
Your other option is Academae Graduate conjurer wizard for standard action summons. You have to make a fort save, and you're trading highest-level slots for highest-level summons...not quite as favorable a trade.
That's far too simplistic a comparison between the occultist and a conjurer wizard. As a summoning focused wizard, you are going to have far more casts per day, thanks to the extra spell slot at every level from your school specialization, as well as being able to put more point into Int which increases spells per day further. Going 16 int 16 cha requires every point of a 20 point buy, while getting int all the way to 18 still leaves you three points.
And lets not forget the wizard's full spell progression, bonded item or familiar, bonus feats, scribe scroll, and school specialization bonus abilities. As an Occultist, all your precious points will be burned on summons, leaving very little left over for any of the arcanist's excellent exploits, which means all you're left with is a caster with sorc spell progression, below average spells per day (both because of low int and because you're now consuming your high level spells for points) and the ability to summon as an SLA four times a day.
Compared to a conjuration wizard with graduate, there's just no compelling reason to go occultist when you lose so much trying to make the new arcane points work.
I may just take a plunge into the cheese pool that is Occult Adventures and make a psychic character instead for this character.
Do you even have a basis for this, or is the book just new and psionic-sounding enough that you assume it's cheesy?
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I may just take a plunge into the cheese pool that is Occult Adventures and make a psychic character instead for this character.Do you even have a basis for this, or is the book just new and psionic-sounding enough that you assume it's cheesy?
My local min-maxer players said the OA is pretty crazy in terms of what the new physic classes can do. Given they are the ones that usually make characters that breeze through most encounters, I have to take their word with quite some weight.