Viper Vine Clarification

[Erithtotl]

My players encountered this creature tonight. As we played through the encounter, it seemed to me the signature ability is broken, or I am interpreting it wrong.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=854

Captivating Pollen (enchantment, incapacitation, mental, poison) The viper vine releases a 60-foot emanation of invisible pollen that stays in the air for 5 rounds unless dispersed by a moderate or stronger wind. Each creature that enters or starts its turn in the area must attempt a DC 33 Will save or be captivated. The viper vine can't use Captivating Pollen for 1d4 rounds.
Critical Success The creature is unaffected and is temporarily immune to Captivating Pollen for 24 hours.
Success The creature is sickened 1.
Failure The creature is fascinated, and it must spend each of its actions to move closer to the viper vine as expediently as possible while avoiding obvious dangers. If a captivated creature is adjacent to the viper vine, it stays still and doesn't act. It ceases to be fascinated if it's no longer in the pollen aura at the end of its turn.
Critical Failure As failure, plus the creature is stupefied 2 for 24 hours.

So, with a single action it releases a 60' emanation that lasts for 5 rounds. Players in it have to make a high DC will save or be fascinated AND move towards the creature/stand next to it doing nothing AS LONG AS THEY ARE IN THE CLOUD (which lasts for 5 rounds) AND it can do this every 1-4 rounds, meaning it can keep the cloud going forever.

Now fascinate normally gives a -2 to some checks, restricts concentrate actions but is broken as soon as the creature or friendlies are attacked. But the AND part is not fascination, but rather an additional effect not seemingly subject to fascinate's limitations.

So in this case a party of 5 had 3 characters fail their saves, meaning the other two had to take on a level 13 creature.

I decided to let the players re-save every round, since otherwise 3 of them would just stand their slackjawed for the whole fight, and in fact everyone would likely fail their saves eventually as well (I also didn't have them roll additional saves after they had succeeded).

Also, how does the incapacitate trait work since the attack doesn't have a 'spell level'.

[Castilliano]

Your reading is too legalistic. I read it with "and" not leading to a separate effect (otherwise that'd be worthy of a new sentence), but rather connecting the two effects; being Fascinated is what leads to spending one's actions that way/doing nothing. It's a package deal.

As you've pointed out, it would be too horrible if interpreted the more severe way. And the CRB has a rule about that, that if a game mechanic seems to good or bad to be true, then it's likely being misread.

So in effect, the Viper Vine can bring the party to itself, but once combat starts, they're all there to fight. They might not want to be there though, and they might be Sickened 1 or Stupefied 2.

Funnily enough, your interpretation operates a bit in reverse. When the Viper Vine attacks, the effect ends completely, but unless they critically saved, the PCs have to save again at the beginning of their turn or become captivated (unless they've left the cloud of course). So the amount of heroes fighting will fluctuate every round, which yes, makes the cloud quite strong and why it has the Incapacitation trait so it can't be used as a minor minion w/ that game-changing ability.

The save DC is normal for its level.

CRB: "If any other effect has the incapacitation trait, a creature of higher level than the item, creature, or hazard generating the effect gains the same benefits."

[Erithtotl]

Castilliano wrote:

Your reading is too legalistic. I read it with "and" not leading to a separate effect (otherwise that'd be worthy of a new sentence), but rather connecting the two effects; being Fascinated is what leads to spending one's actions that way/doing nothing. It's a package deal.

As you've pointed out, it would be too horrible if interpreted the more severe way. And the CRB has a rule about that, that if a game mechanic seems to good or bad to be true, then it's likely being misread.

So in effect, the Viper Vine can bring the party to itself, but once combat starts, they're all there to fight. They might not want to be there though, and they might be Sickened 1 or Stupefied 2.

Funnily enough, your interpretation operates a bit in reverse. When the Viper Vine attacks, the effect ends completely, but unless they critically saved, the PCs have to save again at the beginning of their turn or become captivated (unless they've left the cloud of course). So the amount of heroes fighting will fluctuate every round, which yes, makes the cloud quite strong and why it has the Incapacitation trait so it can't be used as a minor minion w/ that game-changing ability.

The save DC is normal for its level.

CRB: "If any other effect has the incapacitation trait, a creature of higher level than the item, creature, or hazard generating the effect gains the same benefits."

Thanks, I think your interpretation makes sense, but I do think it could have been written better, since none of the additional effect has anything to do with the RAW of fascinated.