Has the PFS groups i play with been doing this wrong? The GMs have the grappler roll a d20 and add it to his CMB along with the plus 10 + spell level VS. the caster's concentration check(d20 + caster level + ability score + feats/traits/items).
But the CRB under magic,concentration says...
"Grappling or Pinned: Casting a spell while you have the grappled or pinned condition is difficult and it requires a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting). Pinned creatures can only cast spells that do not have somatic components."
and in CRB conditions, grappled...
"Grappled: A grappled creature is restrained by a creature, trap, or effect. Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity. A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple. In addition, grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform. A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell. Grappled creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity."
No mention of the grappler getting to roll a die is ever made!!
And CMB is NOT defined anywhere i can find as including a d20 roll. The D20 is always added latter in the specific action's description...except in this case(grapple), where a +10 seems to substitute.
The concentration check to cast while grappled is 10 + Grappler's CMB + spell level. The Grappler doesn't ever roll a d20 in this.
Yeah, there is a difference between your combat maneuver bonus and your CMB check. For the check you roll a d20. Your CMB is just a static value.
Also, CMB is defined as:
Quote: Combat Maneuvers
During combat, you can attempt to perform a number of maneuvers that can hinder or even cripple your foe, including bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, sunder, and trip. Although these maneuvers have vastly different results, they all use a similar mechanic to determine success.
Combat Maneuver Bonus: Each character and creature has a Combat Maneuver Bonus (or CMB) that represents its skill at performing combat maneuvers. A creature's CMB is determined using the following formula:
CMB = Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifier
Creatures that are size Tiny or smaller use their Dexterity modifier in place of their Strength modifier to determine their CMB. The special size modifier for a creature's Combat Maneuver Bonus is as follows: Fine –8, Diminutive –4, Tiny –2, Small –1, Medium +0, Large +1, Huge +2, Gargantuan +4, Colossal +8. Some feats and abilities grant a bonus to your CMB when performing specific maneuvers.
Don't forget to add situational modifiers too:
Quote: When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. Hmmn, actually, I'm not sure which bonuses you'd get to your CMB for the purposes of increasing concentration DC for spells. The argument being that you may only get these bonuses to your CMB when you're actually performing a maneuver, and not just passively.
Yeah, the concentration check DC for casting while grappled is a specific number, not a roll. I think that's true for all concentration checks. There's actually an explanation for why it's like this, and one that lets you roll if you'd like. If you look at the formula you'll notice it's a bunch of specific game defined stats... plus 10. Same formula for AC and DCs of spells. This is because you're taking 10 (sort of). If you want rolling you can just replace the "10" with "d20" and get much the same effect. It's just a metric @#$%ton of rolling if you do it with AC and probably too powerful with rerolls if you do it for DCs. By the rules though, it's just 10+grappler's CMB+spell level. Also, and I'm not positive here, but I think you also need to cast defensively if you don't want to provoke from other people. The grappler can't take attacks of opportunity (unless they're Tetori) so you're safe from them, but I think you still provoke from everyone else around you. It's an additional concentration check, not a replacement for the usual "cast defensively" check.
Bob Bob Bob wrote: The grappler can't take attacks of opportunity (unless they're Tetori) so you're safe from them, but I think you still provoke from everyone else around you. It's an additional concentration check, not a replacement for the usual "cast defensively" check. I'll have to keep that in mind.
The PC has combat casting, a trait for +2, and will buy an item for another +2. Mainly because he will be up front ALOT, and i want him to auto -succeed casting defensively(at least low level spells). Though he has a good AC...he will still be more vulnerable than most to combat manuevers, so i'm tryin to figure out the best way to handle that. Seems with the above formula being as it is, he will be able to cast while grappled about 50-60% of the time.
Sounds good, but keep in mind that the concentration check needed for casting in a grapple won't benefit from bonuses to casting defensively.
All the specific benefits to casting defensively i list above ALSO apply to concentration checks when grappled. The trait and item are for ALL concentration checks and combat casting also gives +4 to concentration checks while grappled.
Combat Casting states:
Quote: Benefit: You get a +4 bonus on concentration checks made to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability when casting on the defensive or while grappled. However, Gloves of Elvenkind state:
Quote: These plain gray leather gloves grant a +5 competence bonus on Spellcraft checks and concentration checks made to cast a spell defensively. Thus, while Combat Casting will help, the Gloves of Elvenkind will not.
I understand you probably already knew this, but I felt it was worth noting in general. Other people read these threads, etc.
However, Gloves of Elvenkind state:
Quote: These plain gray leather gloves grant a +5 competence bonus on Spellcraft checks and concentration checks made to cast a spell defensively. "Thus, while Combat Casting will help, the Gloves of Elvenkind will not.
I understand you probably already knew this, but I felt it was worth noting in general. Other people read these threads, etc."
No problem...never heard of the "gloves of Elvenkind" before...the item i am talking about is the "Tunic of careful casting"
"This woolen garment is decorated with a pattern of linked chains embroidered in silver and black thread. It assists the wearer with maintaining focus during spellcasting, granting a +2 bonus on Concentration checks."...5000gp from ultimate equipment, chest slot.
Recent threads in Rules Questions
|
