Greetings all,
small question me and my GM in EC are wondering about the Stonecunning feat:
Stonecunning
You have a knack for noticing even small inconsistencies and craftsmanship techniques in the stonework around you. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus to Perception checks to notice unusual stonework. This bonus applies to checks to discover mechanical traps made of stone or hidden within stone.
They read it as this applying specifically to checks to discover mechanical traps made of stone or hidden within stone. I am taking this feat because it is very dwarven, but also because I am wary of that damn famous double grikkitog fight in EC.
So as an example of an atypical stone related seek check, the grikkitog implant core ability:
Implant Core
Implant Core [three-actions] (manipulate) The grikkitog implants its core into an adjacent section of earth or stone, melding seamlessly and changing its visual appearance to match the surrounding rock. It’s immobilized but automatically succeeds at its Deception check to Impersonate the stone around it; creatures actively searching for it can still attempt Perception checks against its Deception DC as normal. A grikkitog can release its implantation as a free action, which has the manipulate trait. A grikkitog’s infestation aura and manifold vision are only active while implanted.
So would the circumstance bonus apply to seek checks to find a grikkitog or is it only for mechanical traps made of stone or hidden within stone.
P.S: GM is legit curious too so this isn't a ''ask your GM'' thing.
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This is absolutely a "make a decision with your best judgment" question rather than a "not the special rules text on page XYZ" question. Personally, I'd think that granting the bonus would be totally appropriate for that specific case.
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The text is ambiguous, because the mention of traps could be read two ways:
You get a +2 bonus. This bonus applies to this check (and by implication nothing else.)
Or
You get a +2 bonus, which applies to such things as...
I feel like the latter is more in the spirit of the ability. So it should apply to the specific monster.
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I also tend to err on the side of explicit lists being an example of type rather than an exhaustive list.
So while stone traps would be an example of unusual stonework, it isn't the only thing that would qualify.
I agree with the above posts. I don't think it's 100% either way, but I would definitely go with it counting, personally, for a couple reasons:
1. Stonecunning isn't exactly an OP ability. I'm all for letting flavorful character options work when it seems like they should.
2. The way I see it, the fact that the two sentences are separate indicates that they can be read independently, and that the latter sentence is merely an example. I could be wrong about this, but I think if they wanted it to only work for traps I would expect them to either say that the bonus "only" applies to xyz, or for the sentences to be linked.
It's also worth noting that the term "unusual stonework" is used as a descriptor of what the bonus applies to and doesn't appear to be flavor text like the first sentence of the ability. Generally speaking in 2e Paizo's done a great job of separating flavor text from mechanics by starting with the in-game description and then switching to the mechanics and sticking to that throughout the rest of the ability instead of going back and forth.
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I see the additional sentence as a clarification to ensure that the general bonus that the first part talks about with regard to unusual stonework should ALWAYS apply to any check to discover mechanical traps made of or housed within stone.
I do not believe that the intent of the ability is that it should ONLY apply to traps and nothing else.
As for that nastily overpowered creature in your example... I'm afraid it would not work at all given that, first off, it's a creature and ability and NOT a trap plus the fact that the ability notes that the Implant Core function represents "melding seamlessly and changing its visual appearance to match the surrounding rock" which, to me, means that there is no discernable visual difference whatsoever with the rock/stone it's implanted into at all with the possible exception of if the PC is using Detect Magic but that aura itself is also rather immense at 120 ft which would almost certainly cover the entire room/chamber you're in which makes finding the center of the aura nearly impossible without multiple rounds of actions spent to locate the core and maintaining Detect Magic.
In other words, this will almost certainly not help with this monstrosity of a creature which, even at level 14, still punches way above its weight.
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I'd allow it for detecting anything out of place in natural stone and stone-works. So, I would give a bonus to detect hidden grikkitogs and piercers, to identifying the presence (and weaknesses) of caryatid columns, stone golems, and other forms of animated stone, hidden cobble mites, as well as mundane things like rotten stone, falling stone traps, clues as to where an ancient cave collapse originated, etc.
Hm. I can see being able to find creatures mimicking stonework easier but I'm not sure I'd agree with you being able to identify weaknesses on them more easily (I'm assuming what you meant here was a RK check to identify resistances and weaknesses?). For me I see it as being able to use your expertise with actual stonework to be able to identify more easily when something...isn't actual stonework but that wouldn't necessarily give you insight into the creature itself.
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...I do not believe that the intent of the ability is that it should ONLY apply to traps and nothing else....
...I'm afraid it would not work at all given that, first off, it's a creature and ability and NOT a trap plus the fact that the ability notes that the Implant Core function represents "melding seamlessly and changing its visual appearance to match the surrounding rock" which, to me, means that there is no discernable visual difference whatsoever with the rock/stone it's implanted into at all with the possible exception of if the PC is using Detect Magic...
I certainly see where you're coming from and agree Stonecunning can be useful outside of mechanical traps but I disagree that, given the GM ruling that it has broader applications, it wouldn't be useful for locating the core. The grikkitog and it's core are both described as "melding seamlessly and changing its visual appearance to match the surrounding rock," which is considered an Impersonation ability. The ability explicitly gives PCs the option to use their Perception vs the grikkitog's Deception skill to locate it. Since that involves differentiating it from the surrounding stone, I personally think there's an argument to be made for getting the bonus to Stonecunning, especially since even if it's ruled there's no way to tell where a grikkitog and/or it's core is by sight there's nothing limiting Stonecunning to visual checks only AFAIK.