I would prefer to use a condition that does exist in place of 'entangles'. Probably Grabbed.
The mechanical effects of the condition could be applied to the target creature, yes.
Also, there exists the Ranged Trip trait, so a ranged grab isn't completely without precedent.
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The mechanical effects of the condition could be applied to the target creature, yes.
Also, there exists the Ranged Trip trait, so a ranged grab isn't completely without precedent.
Are there other creatures with a similar ability? I know the hunting spider has the web trap effect, which is similar to grab, but I am curious as to why that ability is not specifically mentioned for the spider form of insect form.
I'd go with Immobilized, which is what most spider monsters w/ webs do.
(Goliath, level 11, goes all the way to Restrained!)
ETA: Also, Immobilized doesn't need to be maintained, Grabbed does which is a bit wonky IMO.
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I'd go with Immobilized, which is what most spider monsters w/ webs do.
(Goliath, level 11, goes all the way to Restrained!)ETA: Also, Immobilized doesn't need to be maintained, Grabbed does which is a bit wonky IMO.
If using immobilized, would you use your fortitude dc as the dc to break free? Maybe class dc?
If using immobilized, would you use your fortitude dc as the dc to break free? Maybe class dc?I'd go with Immobilized, which is what most spider monsters w/ webs do.
(Goliath, level 11, goes all the way to Restrained!)ETA: Also, Immobilized doesn't need to be maintained, Grabbed does which is a bit wonky IMO.
Tl;dr: I'd use the spellcasting DC for the tradition involved.
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Good question, and I'd have to go w/ Class DC or Spell DC for classes lacking a Class DC. The web's a creation that the creature's no longer engaged with, so I don't see their Fortitude being a factor (like say with Grab). (more later)
Looking at the spiders, their Fortitude saves differ from the DCs, though I can't see a direct correlation to any Key Ability score either...them being made "as is" rather than "ground upward". So no help there.
Hmm, not sure which I'd use if the shapeshifter were a legendary caster using an MCD that's maybe only trained to do their shapeshifting. I might have to change that answer to the Spell DC of the casting tradition used for Insect Form (typically Primal, yet two deities offer it as Divine too). Yeah, that seems the better route given it's that spell originating this. (And I believe other spells which give an ability also refer to the base spell's DC for the ability's DC.)
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Any ability used while in Insect Form (or any battle form for that matter) uses your Spell DC, since it's granted by a Spell. This means a class that doesn't normally have Primal Spell DCs would have to use the DC granted by the Druid Archetype, which may not be the best for them.
If you somehow have a battle form that is not granted by a Spell, like a Dragon Barbarian's Dragon Form, you would use your Class DC.
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If using immobilized, would you use your fortitude dc as the dc to break free? Maybe class dc?I'd go with Immobilized, which is what most spider monsters w/ webs do.
(Goliath, level 11, goes all the way to Restrained!)ETA: Also, Immobilized doesn't need to be maintained, Grabbed does which is a bit wonky IMO.
Tl;dr: I'd use the spellcasting DC for the tradition involved.
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Good question, and I'd have to go w/ Class DC or Spell DC for classes lacking a Class DC. The web's a creation that the creature's no longer engaged with, so I don't see their Fortitude being a factor (like say with Grab). (more later)Looking at the spiders, their Fortitude saves differ from the DCs, though I can't see a direct correlation to any Key Ability score either...them being made "as is" rather than "ground upward". So no help there.
Hmm, not sure which I'd use if the shapeshifter were a legendary caster using an MCD that's maybe only trained to do their shapeshifting. I might have to change that answer to the Spell DC of the casting tradition used for Insect Form (typically Primal, yet two deities offer it as Divine too). Yeah, that seems the better route given it's that spell originating this. (And I believe other spells which give an ability also refer to the base spell's DC for the ability's DC.)
Thank you!! Very detailed. I like this route.
I'd go with Immobilized, which is what most spider monsters w/ webs do.
(Goliath, level 11, goes all the way to Restrained!)
Yeah, that's fair too.
ETA: Also, Immobilized doesn't need to be maintained, Grabbed does which is a bit wonky IMO.
Grappling needs to be maintained. The condition itself is not maintained. And the webbing only lasts one round anyway.
It's worth noting this is probably a holdover from the playtest where iirc entangled was its own condition, I think inflicting a penalty to speed and probably the part of grabbed that gives you failure chance on manipulate actions. Mind you I could be misremembering, the playtest had even more nested conditions so it was sometimes difficult to keep track.
Either way, immobilized for 1 round is probably not game breaking for a substitute.
Nice catch.
Looking into the playtest pdf:
A snare or another entrapping effect holds you back.
You’re hampered 10 (see the condition). If you attempt a
manipulate action, activity, free action, or reaction while
entangled, you must succeed at a DC 5 flat check or it is
lost; attempt the check after using it but before any effects
are applied.
and
Your Speed is reduced. Hampered is always followed by a
number indicating by how many feet the condition reduces
your Speed. This condition can’t reduce your Speed below
5 feet. If the condition doesn’t specify which of your
movement types it applies to, it applies to all of them. You
can have both the accelerated and hampered conditions at
the same time, so if you were accelerated 10 and hampered
15, your Speed would be reduced by 5 feet.