Versatile Performance and Bonuses to the skill


Rules Questions


If a bard with versatile performance has a bonus that adds to the skill check doe they get that when making the skill.

The specific I am looking at is the human alternative racial trait Silver Tongued. It gives a +2 trait bonus to Bluff and Diplomacy [b]checks[]. The way it is worded seems like it in not actually increasing the skill, but instead giving a bonus to the check. A bard with versatile performance oratory is still making a diplomacy check.


So the first part is that there's no dofference between a bonus to your diplomacy skill and a bonus to your diplomacy check. Paizo has said many times that they don't write in Legalese, they write in common English, so those kind of differences aren't actually differences.

(... Except the Attack Action)

Next, let's take a look at the wording ...

At 2nd level, a bard can choose one type of Perform skill. He can use his bonus in that skill in place of his bonus in associated skills. When substituting in this way, the bard uses his total Perform skill bonus, including class skill bonus, in place of its associated skill's bonus, whether or not he has ranks in that skill or if it is a class skill.

Now it doesn't specifically call out trait bonuses, but it does say "total perform skill" and "in place of". Without any other qualifiers that means you ignore all bonuses to your original skill and instead use any and all bonuses to your Perform skill.

However this means you can use things like the SAVANT trait, or the HALFLING Alternate Trait Driven Worker.

So this means there is a way to game the system, just not the way you're using.


The reason I am taking the Silvered Tongue is for the ability to shift attitudes 3 steps instead of 2. The extra bonus on diplomacy would have been nice, but not that important.

I figured that it probably did not but wanted to see what people though about it.

Liberty's Edge

Quote:

Silver Tongued

Source Advanced Race Guide pg. 72
Human are often adept at subtle manipulation and putting even sworn foes at ease. Humans with this trait gain a +2 bonus on Diplomacy and Bluff checks. In addition, when they use Diplomacy to shift a creature’s attitude, they can shift up to three steps up rather than just two. This racial trait replaces skilled.

I would say that you don't get the +2 to the check, as it is linked to the use of the actual skill, but that you get to shift the attitude by 3 steps, as that depends on attempting to use diplomacy to shift a person attitude.


Agreed


I'm inclined to think that it will have to be situational.

There are some skills that benefit from the use of masterwork tools; for example, Disable Device gets a +2 bonus from masterwork thieves tools, but the Chronicler of Worlds gets to use Linguistics for Disable Device checks (with no caveat limiting that to specific situations). Logically, if you're picking a lock, how does a better set of tools NOT help?

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Versatile Performance and Bonuses to the skill All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.