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Hello, dear pathfinders. Yesterday was our mega dungeon game and something unusual happened. Our rogue asked to lock some doors to prevent ambushes in the way back. I didn't find anything related within our 30secs rule and then I used the following:
- if the lock is not broken, the rogue can use Thievery (CD based on the quality of the original lock) and enemies who run through, need to Pick lock or Force the door.
- if the lock is broken, there is no way to locking it. Although, if players have bought locks they can try to lock it again. If they're out of locks, they can hold doors with resisted Athletics checks.
What do you think? There are specific rules?
Thanks in advance.
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There are specific rules?
Not that I can remember. Your rulings look perfect to me.
There is also the Lock spell, but nothing you asked about even mentioned any spellcasters.
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A classic tactic was to spike doors shut. Iron spikes were a commonly equipped item for this (and to feed Rust Monsters).
It's pleasing to see strategic thinking, and dynamic adventure sites which require thinking beyond the room(s) at hand. :)
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Well, the first thing to ask is 'what type of lock are we dealing with?'
In the modern world, the vast majority of locks are designed to only require the key from the 'outside' and someone on the inside can lock/unlock it easily (probably a single interact action, perhaps even part of the interact to open/close the door).
You can build a lock that requires a key from either direction, but these are going to have some issues:
If you go with a simple single lock where the keyway is open at both ends,
- you have to limit the thickness of the door (so the key can reach the lock from both ends),
- you've provided a 'peep hole' right through the door, and
- the lock is probably fairly easy to pick as the bitting has to be mirrored (the first and last pin settings have to be the same,as do the second and second-to-last pins, etc. so the key can work from either direction)
- the door can only be opened if it is unlocked from both sides, limiting its usefulness (great for adjoining hotels where the next room might be occupied by the same family or by a complete stranger, not so great in most other situations)
This is a level of detail the game isn't going to get into, so the GM will have to decide how locks work in a given situation: Generally speaking, I'd probably assume locks only require keys from one side unless there is a decent reason for it to be built differently...
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It looks like a decent rules call to me.
As a small nitpick, 2E has moved away from opposed checks a bit. Instead of them rolling Athletics against your Athletics check, they'd roll Athletics against your Athletics DC, which is 10 + your Athletics bonus. It's usually the active party (so someone trying to force open a door) making the check and the passive/resisting party providing the DC.
This tends to have a bit more smooth probability distribution.
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There is a Lock item. The item has a DC. That would be the DC to lock/unlock it without the key.
If you wanna jam it after, that's a different story. What I would do is have them make a Disable a Device check on the door or lock, and if they succeed they disable it, rendering it inoperable. I would set the DC to Force Open the door to the player's Thievery DC, and if they critically Disable the door I would add a suitable bonus to that DC.
Thematically, this could be as simple as shoving a chair under the handle to prevent them from opening it, or jamming the latch so it won't unlatch, or even just gluing the door shut with Sovereign Glue, which would be the best method to stop entry in my opinion.
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It may be worth mentioning that pre-industrial revolution (this type of thing hasn't happened on Golarian at-scale except in a VERY few select regions) the vast majority of doors didn't have "doorknobs" or any way to lock them at all, at BEST it was a metal latch on a pivot that was riveted/bolted to the doorframe.
The way I plan out my adventures in this game assumes that perhaps 5% of doors are going to have a lock or doorknob at all, the rest would simply rest on hinges to be pulled/pushed open with perhaps a wooden latch that even an ornery toddler could get through. Only really important thresholds have locks, things like the front and back entrances, vault chambers, or other areas where even some/most the residents of the building/structure would not be permitted.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It may be worth mentioning that pre-industrial revolution (this type of thing hasn't happened on Golarian at-scale except in a VERY few select regions) the vast majority of doors didn't have "doorknobs" or any way to lock them at all, at BEST it was a metal latch on a pivot that was riveted/bolted to the doorframe.
The way I plan out my adventures in this game assumes that perhaps 5% of doors are going to have a lock or doorknob at all, the rest would simply rest on hinges to be pulled/pushed open with perhaps a wooden latch that even an ornery toddler could get through. Only really important thresholds have locks, things like the front and back entrances, vault chambers, or other areas where even some/most the residents of the building/structure would not be permitted.
Wooden pin locks date back to 4000 B.C. Assyria and Egyptian had door locks not much later. Greeks were using wooden sliding bolt locks [uses metal key with two notches to open] by about 1000 B.C. with domuses having locking interior doors. All metal warded locks show up around 870 and 900.
"Modern locks", Industrial Revolution ones, are your lever tumbler lock type [patent 1778]. Door locks became more common place in the 1500's as people started to move towards individual rooms vs living in a common room.
As far as handles/knobs, they go back to the Neolithic period. Romans had recognizably modern interior doors including door handles. China by the 4th Century CE was producing a range of automated doors, door locks and door bars. Middle ages blacksmiths made drop latches which could be opened by a handle connected to the latch by a split pin passing through the door. Mid-17th Century, drop handles started being replaced by forged vertical handles and Suffolk latches where created. Early 17th Century also saw mortise locks and compact rim locks. This is all pre-Industrial Revolution [1760-1840].
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It may be worth mentioning that pre-industrial revolution (this type of thing hasn't happened on Golarian at-scale except in a VERY few select regions) the vast majority of doors didn't have "doorknobs" or any way to lock them at all, at BEST it was a metal latch on a pivot that was riveted/bolted to the doorframe.
The way I plan out my adventures in this game assumes that perhaps 5% of doors are going to have a lock or doorknob at all, the rest would simply rest on hinges to be pulled/pushed open with perhaps a wooden latch that even an ornery toddler could get through. Only really important thresholds have locks, things like the front and back entrances, vault chambers, or other areas where even some/most the residents of the building/structure would not be permitted.
Even a poor lock is 2 silver, which is pretty expensive for a commoner. That could get you 20 poor meals, which would be almost a week of food. When you have nothing of value to your name, why waste money on a lock?
Even a poor lock is 2 silver, which is pretty expensive for a commoner. That could get you 20 poor meals, which would be almost a week of food. When you have nothing of value to your name, why waste money on a lock?It may be worth mentioning that pre-industrial revolution (this type of thing hasn't happened on Golarian at-scale except in a VERY few select regions) the vast majority of doors didn't have "doorknobs" or any way to lock them at all, at BEST it was a metal latch on a pivot that was riveted/bolted to the doorframe.
The way I plan out my adventures in this game assumes that perhaps 5% of doors are going to have a lock or doorknob at all, the rest would simply rest on hinges to be pulled/pushed open with perhaps a wooden latch that even an ornery toddler could get through. Only really important thresholds have locks, things like the front and back entrances, vault chambers, or other areas where even some/most the residents of the building/structure would not be permitted.
Sure that's true but what reason is there for a party to be robbing such a commoner: I'm not sure it matters if some random shack or lean-to has lock if there isn't a reason to go there.