Discussion for invited members. If you are not sure what this is about, you probably stumbled upon the thread by chance. If this is the case, I would politely ask that you do not participate. Thank you.
Right, guys, so I am back to the board. Already managed to get into a few games and was wondering whether we can get this thing rolling again. Let's talk on the system and scenarios, then.
As an alternative, an AP is open for discussion, if that's something you want to commit to.
So what are we doing? PFS? Something custom? An AP as mentioned above?
1st Ed? 2nd Ed? Not sure whether you guys stayed with 1st edition or not, etc.
i'm in for PFS...or anything really...haven't made the dip into 2ed yet...and the PFS stuff is a bit down right now...i think because it's con season and the next PBP con is in Sept...
I'm down for about anything. I've fallen in love with 2E, but I can still play 1E just fine. I'm more excited about an AP, but am willing play in several PFS scenarios.
Can confirm 2e action system is very satisfying compared to 8 action types of 1e.
I can do both either way, so it's really up to you guys to agree on something and we would start rolling. The plan is to make a longer set of games or a campaign to low late levels. If you want to go for pfs credit or not, I don't really mind. I just feel like running something.
as i said...i'm up for anything...and if we do go 2ed, you'll have to be patient with me asking stupid questions and messing stuff up...
An AP or module would be cool...i think a module first....as a stress test...that way should anything come up, there's not as much invested should it be waylaid...
Now to other things - do you want to olay for PFS credit? If not, we could get a little wild on character creation. I am not familiar with 3pp however, so we'd still stick to paizo content but I would likely implement some house rules (feat tax issues, etc).
PFS is fine if we all want...if we don't i'm cool with that...i'll likely play something i dont usually play...might go with a bard or something exotic...
I'm good with not for PFS credit. Let's go crazy with some fun builds.
Here's an idea unless you have all played them through over and over. What about the Crypt of the Everflame, Masks of the Living God, and City of Golden Death Trilogy? I've played Everflame a couple of times, and Masks Once years ago. I never got a chance to play City of Golden Death.
I'd also love a chance at playing Second Darkness or Council of Thieves. And I've never played Kingmaker which I hear is one of the best out there.
Now to other things - do you want to olay for PFS credit? If not, we could get a little wild on character creation. I am not familiar with 3pp however, so we'd still stick to paizo content but I would likely implement some house rules (feat tax issues, etc).
I'm heavily in favor of playing for PFS credit, but there's a great compromise that allows us to play loose with the rules and play for credit: APs in Campaign Mode. You have to commit a PFS number to the playthrough, but you don't actually play a PFS character; you can play anything you want, with any rules. You still get chronicle sheets at the end that you then assign to that PFS number you committed.
I've never played either Second Darkness or Council of Thieves; I would be open to both!
I looked at it, and then did some searching - I didn't see anything stated about legal table size. So if I understand correctly, we still need 1 more player.
I think we'd still want a 4th even if 3 were legal; APs are best with that number I think. If we decide on an AP to play, I doubt it would be hard to find a 4th in Flaxseed.
Alright, so Everflame first. You guys can start working on what you want to bring. Once we are done with that, we will recruit the 4th member, so that they know what we have and can complement the party, if need be.
If there are questions or doubts, feel free to ask.
Ability scores and traits: We will do 25 pt buy, 3 traits, 1 drawback, no campaign-specific traits. (If you do not want a drawback, you don't need to have one, but reduce amount of traits to 2)
Gear: Maximum starting gold based on the class.
Backstories: Backstories will not really be necessary, since we are doing modules. If you want to write one, go ahead. Bot nothing long, please. Try to sum up the character in 1-2 standard pages, ie 3600 characters. I promise I won't be mad if it's short. We are not making level 5 characters, but starting adventurers.
I may be open to others, if you can convince me. Big IF.
I play my games witht he following house rules. If you are not okay with anything from it, let me know, and we can make changes, assuming we reach a consensus.
Classes:
Paizo can sometimes make odd decisions when it comes to class design. To remedy this, I propose the following changes to classes. If you are opposed to any specific change, let me know, and we can discuss it before the game starts.
Chained Monk - Chained Monks get a d10 Hit Die and full-progression base attack bonus. They not receive the -2 penalty when using their flurry of blows class feature. Everything else remains unchanged.
Gunslinger - for purposes of targeting touch AC with attacks made with firearms, and any class features of the gunslinger class related to firearms - consider the range increments of all firearms used by the gunslinger to be double their rulebook table value.
Fighter - Errata’d Lore Warden archetype is rubbish. Use the old version if you wish.
Rogue - If you wish to play a rogue, please use the Unchained version. All archetypes are legal for it.
Feats:
Feat tax is a thing in Pathfinder. A ranged character, for example, needs to either be human, or one of very few classes, or be very ineffective with a bow for the first 2 levels. That does not sound right, especially given that the player characters should be somewhat exceptional in terms of skill. They are the realm’s future heroes, after all. Humble beginning? Absolutely! Inept liability? Possible, but only if the player wishes to. They shouldn’t be forced to be bad by the game system. To remedy this, I changed the wording of some feats to be used in my games. In addition, certain feats can be problematic for various reasons. With that said, I use the following changes to feats. Again, if you are opposed to any of these propositions, we may talk it through.
Arithmancy
The feat is not permitted. It actually slows the game to a halt for extended periods of time.
Dodge
Prerequisites: Dex 13
Benefit: You gain a +1 dodge bonus to your AC. A condition that makes you lose your Dex bonus to AC also makes you lose the benefits of this feat. If your base attack bonus is 2 or higher, you also gain the benefits of the Mobility feat.
Special: If you have 2 or more base attack bonus and this feat, you count as if having both Dodge and Mobility feats for purposes of qualifying for prerequisites of other feats.
Two-Weapon Fighting
Prerequisites: Dex 15
Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. See Two-Weapon Fighting in Combat.
Once your base attack bonus reaches 6, if you have 17 or more Dex, you get a second attack with your off-hand weapon in addition to the standard single extra attack, albeit at a –5 penalty.
Once your base attack bonus reaches 11, if you have 19 or more Dex, you get a third attack with your off-hand weapon, albeit at a –10 penalty.
Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light.
Leadership
Just don't.
Martial Combat Training
(Custom)
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +4
Benefit: You may take Fighter only feats, treating your base attack bonus as your fighter level when qualifying for prerequisites.
Precise Shot
Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +1
Benefit: You can shoot or throw ranged weapons at an opponent engaged in melee without taking the standard –4 penalty on your attack roll. In addition, you get a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at ranges of up to 30 feet.
Special: With this feat, you qualify as having both Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot feats for purposes of meeting prerequisites of other feats.
Sacred Geometry
Arithmancy treatment.
Weapon Finesse
Prerequisite: Weapon Focus with chosen weapon
Benefit: Pick one light or finessable weapon type. While wielding the chosen weapon that is made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack and damage rolls (Including Unarmed Strikes, if you have Improved Unarmed Strike feat or class feature).
If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls. While wielding the chosen weapon type(s), you also gain the benefits of the Agile Maneuvers feat.
You may pick this feat multiple times. Each time you do so, it applies to a different weapon type.
Special: With this feat, qualify as having the Agile Maneuvers and Weapon Finesse feats, as well as having Bladed Brush, Fencing Grace, Slashing Grace, and Starry Grace feats (depending on the weapon of choice when feat is taken) for purposes of meeting prerequisites of other feats.
Natural weapons are considered light weapons.
Weapon Focus
Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon. If your base attack bonus is at least 3 lower than your character level (or your druid’s or summoner’s class level, if you are an animal companion or eidolon respectively), you gain a +2 bonus instead.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.
Nat20's / Nat1's:
Attacks - Natural 1 is a simple miss. No adverse effects apply, but see below. After rolling a critical threat on an attack, you need to either beat the AC of the target with the confirming roll, or roll a number within your critical threat range to confirm a critical hit.
If you roll a natural 20 on both an attack and on your confirmation roll, you roll a d20 again. If this roll results in a natural 20 as well, the attacked creature dies/is destroyed as a result of this attack. The attacked creature is brought to negative hit points equal to its constitution score + 1 (meaning creatures with the Regeneration special ability can still heal from this wound).
If you roll a natural 1 on your attack, you roll to again confirm a critical fumble. If the result of this roll is a natural 1 as well, you receive a randomly determined detrimental effect (sprained wrist, weapon slipping out of your hand, etc)
Skills - A natural 20 or natural 1 has no effect on a success or failure of skill checks. If the check DC is 22, your skill bonus is 21 and you roll a 1, you still succeed. If your bonus is 1 and you roll a 20, you still do not beat the 22 required and fail the check as a result.
Rule of cool may or may not apply, depending on the situation
Saves - A natural 20 or natural 1 is always a successful or failed saving throw, respectively.
Unless it was not updated since 2E released, in which case it would mean yes. Copypasting from the Roleplaying Guild Guide Season of the Ten, which is as far as I am aware the last one, and the currently available one in my download section.
[...] Crypt of the Everflame is a dungeon adventure for 1st-level characters [...]
and
Quote:
[...] Crypt of the Everflame is sanctioned for use in Pathfinder Society Organized Play [...]
So based on the above, since Crypt of the Everflame is a Tier 1 module (adventure).
Following that up with...
Roleplaying Guild Guide Season of the Ten, pg 44 wrote:
Tier: This is a range of character levels that can participate in an adventure. Scenario tiers are usually subdivided into subtiers. A PC cannot participate in an adventure if the PC’s level at the start of the adventure is outside that adventure’s tier.
Roleplaying Guild Guide Season of the Ten, pg 44 wrote:
Sanctioned Module/Adventure Path: These are adventures other than Pathfinder Society scenarios for which characters can receive credit. The list of which modules and Adventure Paths are sanctioned for play appears on the Additional Resources page, where you can download each such adventure’s Chronicle sheets and any special rules involved
Roleplaying Guild Guide Season of the Ten, pg 42 wrote:
Evergreen Adventure: Evergreen adventures are those that a player may replay (or be the GM for) any number of times at a certain level and still earn full rewards. Unless otherwise noted, you treat any Tier 1–2 (not Tier 1–5) adventures with 1st-level PCs as evergreen; you can earn credit with a 2nd-level PC for that adventure only once. See page 19 for more information.
Page 19 below.
Roleplaying Guild Guide Season of the Ten, pg 19 wrote:
EVERGREEN ADVENTURES
All Tier 1 and 1-2 adventures can be replayed an unlimited number of times with a 1st-level character for credit. Tier 1–2 adventures can also be played with a 2nd-level character once for credit in each campaign mode (Core and Standard Modes). GMs receive one Chronicle sheet each time they run one of the Tier 1 and Tier 1-2 adventures. They may apply a Tier 1–2 Chronicle sheet to one 2nd-level character per adventure per campaign mode.
Question now is whether you guys actually want to make NORMAL PFS characters, or do adventure mode as per the houserules I listed in the earlier post. Let me know, and we can get to it.
Yes, this was meant to be a separate post. Remain calm.
it is an evergreen module...at least it better be,,,played it with 8 or 9 of my guys...lol....i can do either standard PFS or campaign...i am not choosy...
if we do regular PFS i have a dhampir boon i can finally use...and make a bard...or something...hmmm...
I'm good with either PFS "Legal" Characters or adventure characters to start.
I've already played the second module in this arc for credit, and that one isn't Evergreen. I'm good with playing for no credit for that module just to keep everyone together for the third one.
I've played Risen from the Sands, and didn't really like it; not real keen on a repeat whether for credit or not. I've never played Masks of the Living God (or Golden Death), and would kind of like to do that, if others don't mind.
Are we bringing new PFS-legal PCs to this game, or doing "Adventure/Campaign Mode" with these build rules?
(As an aside, I think "Adventure Mode" is the PFS2 name for PFS1's "Campaign Mode")
Sorry for the sporadic replies; I keep forgetting to check back here. That will improve once we have a campaign thread and have dotted so we get notifications.
I figured, and I don't mind either way. We'll find a scenario, I'm sure.
I would suggest playing with my proposed rules to reduce feat tax at lower levels, and then when your builds come online you can remake them in classic PFS?
That is for you three to decide, really.
I will give you three until Wed 18th to decide, and then I will make a decision if it's not been made yet. I am inclined to use my rules, as per the post above.
but as long as we're starting with Crypt we can figure out what to play after that...going bard...thinking Aasimar...will apply my boon when we make the the PFS legal toons...gotta try bards...want to break free...(cue Freddie Mercury in drag singing) from my usual builds...
PFS credit will be applied. As far as i understand the mechanics of it, you can give credit to a level appropriate character.
As for character creation in these games, I am inclined to go with the rules outlined in THIS POST.
That way we can get rid of some tax feats and be effective from the start.
Unless you collectively veto this decision (which wasn't done yet as far as I am aware), this is what we will go with.
I will PM all participants today to give me their thoughts on the matter, and give all of you time until Wed 18th to give your input (and some possible discussion on the topic). After that, we can finally go ahead.
I'm flexible with class choice; other than grimdog's bard choice, is anyone else sold on a choice yet?
I'm also flexible, but I think it's a good call to discuss it. With 4 players, we'll want to make sure that all roles are well-covered. Let's see how the vote goes, and work from there.
Okay folks, we have 3 votes in, two of which are for house rules.
Meaning player votes will end in a draw or 3:1 in favour of house rules. Since I consider my vote pivotal in case of a draw, we will houserule the game as per the post #21 above.
I will credit the PFS credit to whatever PFS character you want it assigned afterwards.
With that said, you can start working on the characters.
25 pt buy, max gold as per class entry, 3 traits + 1 drawback (or 2 traits without drawbacks), with the feat adjustments listed in the abovementioned post.
Traits can't be campaign specific, but can be PF faction specific if you want those.
So far we have:
bard - Grimdog
possible healer - CariMac
Rest is up to you. I'm here if you have questions. If you want to make characters that know each other, go for it. That is all up to you.
Once we have the characters set up, we can start. I won't set up a thread just yet, but will do as soon as all this is done. No need to rush things, I want you to have fun here, so if you wanted to do something cooky that you wanted to play from level 1 into levels 6-8, you can go ham.
I am posting the changed feats again, so that you can plan your characters around them if needed. Again, if you want to suggest a houserule in regards to feats, feel free to do so, and we can discuss it.
Feats:
Arithmancy
The feat is not permitted. It actually slows the game to a halt for extended periods of time.
Dodge
Prerequisites: Dex 13
Benefit: You gain a +1 dodge bonus to your AC. A condition that makes you lose your Dex bonus to AC also makes you lose the benefits of this feat. If your base attack bonus is 2 or higher, you also gain the benefits of the Mobility feat.
Special: If you have 2 or more base attack bonus and this feat, you count as if having both Dodge and Mobility feats for purposes of qualifying for prerequisites of other feats.
Two-Weapon Fighting
Prerequisites: Dex 15
Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. See Two-Weapon Fighting in Combat.
Once your base attack bonus reaches 6, if you have 17 or more Dex, you get a second attack with your off-hand weapon in addition to the standard single extra attack, albeit at a –5 penalty.
Once your base attack bonus reaches 11, if you have 19 or more Dex, you get a third attack with your off-hand weapon, albeit at a –10 penalty.
Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light.
Leadership
Just don't.
Martial Combat Training
(Custom)
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +4
Benefit: You may take Fighter only feats, treating your base attack bonus as your fighter level when qualifying for prerequisites.
Precise Shot
Prerequisite: Base Attack Bonus +1
Benefit: You can shoot or throw ranged weapons at an opponent engaged in melee without taking the standard –4 penalty on your attack roll. In addition, you get a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at ranges of up to 30 feet.
Special: With this feat, you qualify as having both Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot feats for purposes of meeting prerequisites of other feats.
Sacred Geometry
Arithmancy treatment.
Weapon Finesse
Prerequisite: Weapon Focus with chosen weapon
Benefit: Pick one light or finessable weapon type. While wielding the chosen weapon that is made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack and damage rolls (Including Unarmed Strikes, if you have Improved Unarmed Strike feat or class feature).
If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls. While wielding the chosen weapon type(s), you also gain the benefits of the Agile Maneuvers feat.
You may pick this feat multiple times. Each time you do so, it applies to a different weapon type.
Special: With this feat, qualify as having the Agile Maneuvers and Weapon Finesse feats, as well as having Bladed Brush, Fencing Grace, Slashing Grace, and Starry Grace feats (depending on the weapon of choice when feat is taken) for purposes of meeting prerequisites of other feats.
Natural weapons are considered light weapons.
Weapon Focus
Choose one type of weapon. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon. If your base attack bonus is at least 3 lower than your character level (or your druid’s or summoner’s class level, if you are an animal companion or eidolon respectively), you gain a +2 bonus instead.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.
One more thing. I am willing to give each of you 1 extra race point to add something special to your character as per the Advanced Race Guide. If you don't want to bother with that, you can get an extra ability score boost (+2 to one ability score), or an extra feat for which you qualify at level 1.
Stupid strong? Maybe. More cutomisation options? Absolutely. Better character experience? I sure as hell hope so.
I'll be playing Andrezzi Alazzario, a Slayer 1. I just noticed you're allowing 25 pt. buy so I'll have to bump him up... probably his Wis and Cha and perhaps a bit more of Dex.
I'm not sure if I'll pick +2 to a stat, a race point or an extra feat: I'll fine tune this as the others make their own character come alive! :)
Perhaps it would be a good time to take a slight dip into a Teamwork Feat, since the feet is free anyway, and they can really make a party awesome with the right selection!
