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If a character is unconscious at 0 hit points (but not dying), and that character is injured, does he gain the dying condition? If so, please show the page or link indicating it if you can.
From what I can tell an unconscious character at 0 who's not dying doesn't gain the dying condition, but that seems weird and maybe I'm just missing the relevant text.
CRB pg.459
“... If the damage came from a nonlethal attack or effect, you don’t gain the dying condition— you are instead unconscious with 0 Hit Points.”
Even if you are injured, by which I believe you meant have the wounded condition, the nonlethal specific overrides the dropping to 0hp and applying the dying condition. In other words, the PC or enemy beaten down with a nonlethal bare fist will just get knocked out and be ridiculed by their friends and family for the next while, but will not die.
If a character is unconscious at 0 hit points (but not dying), and that character is injured, does he gain the dying condition? If so, please show the page or link indicating it if you can.
From what I can tell an unconscious character at 0 who's not dying doesn't gain the dying condition, but that seems weird and maybe I'm just missing the relevant text.
After a period of time determined by the GM, the unconscious person will return to 1 HP and awaken. So, you can treat them as having 1 HP the moment they are injured with a lethal attack, bringing them into the dying condition as per the death/dying rules.
It's not spelt out necessarily, but given how the unconscious condition works, I'd play it out like that.
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If a character is unconscious at 0 hit points (but not dying), and that character is injured, does he gain the dying condition? If so, please show the page or link indicating it if you can.
From what I can tell an unconscious character at 0 who's not dying doesn't gain the dying condition, but that seems weird and maybe I'm just missing the relevant text.
After a period of time determined by the GM, the unconscious person will return to 1 HP and awaken. So, you can treat them as having 1 HP the moment they are injured with a lethal attack, bringing them into the dying condition as per the death/dying rules.
It's not spelt out necessarily, but given how the unconscious condition works, I'd play it out like that.
I agree that must be the intent. I was just looking for how to handle it. The wording could be clearer: "An unconscious character at 0 hit points who takes damage gains dying condition (dying 1)."
No you are immortal.
Indeed. But only if you used your Hero Points to stabilize. I could absolutely see that being a houserule - that you can no longer gain the dying condition while unconscious at 0 HP after using Heroic Recovery.
Don't the rules explicitly state that if you're at 0 HP and take damage, your dying condition increases?
0 to 1 is as valid an increase as any.
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As I see it, there are only two "conditions" that being Dying, and NotDying. If you are not currently Dying, then by default the rules for damage apply such that if you take any you would essentially drop to zero hit points (since there is no such thing as negative hp in PF2E) and you gain the Dying condition. If someone was to try and argue some weird exploit because the rules do not specifically address that particular combination, they wouldn't get very far with me. Some rules need to be clarified by the designers, this is not one of them.
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The whole thread deals with the following:
Creatures cannot be reduced to fewer than 0 hit points
As a player when you are **reduced** to 0 points, you are knocked out with the following effects:
… snip …
You gain the dying 1 condition.
Mathematically you get
0 HP (unconscious) take away x HP equal -x (reduced below 0 HP) but that goes back to 0 HP.
So does 0 - x = 0 count as reduced or not.
In my personal view it is a misuse of the English language word of ‘reduced’ as a descriptive term in the sentence and the special condition that you go back to zero / stay at zero as that is the bottom for an excuse to claim HP isn’t ‘reduced’.
YMMW
Edit: I’m in 100% agreement with TwilightKnight - but funny he uses the word drop. Is from 0 HP to 0 HP a ‘drop’ in HP. I do 100% understand what he wants to say but technically he isn’t saying it. Zero to zero isn’t technically a drop. Funny little language …
I reported this situation. Per strict RAW, you are immortal. Now, I don't see anyone ruling it that way. Giving back the dying condition seems the most obvious ruling.
If someone can point to a notable section of the player-base ruling 0HP non-dying characters are unable to die in any way, then I will support Devs spending their time on this. Until then I think there are more pressing concerns XD
If someone can point to a notable section of the player-base ruling 0HP non-dying characters are unable to die in any way, then I will support Devs spending their time on this. Until then I think there are more pressing concerns XDIt's just unclear language that could be cleaned up with a simple sentence in the unconscious rules. For example by simply saying on pg 460:
If you are unconscious and at 0 Hit Points, but not dying, you naturally return to 1 Hit Point and awaken after sufficient time passes. If you take damage while unconscious at 0 Hp, you gain the dying condition as if reduced to 0 hp. The GM determines how long you remain unconscious, from a minimum of 10 minutes to several hours. If you receive healing during this time, you lose the unconscious condition and can act normally on your next turn.
This would neatly move your initiative to whatever took you to dying again and just requires a single sentence. I can't imagine anyone doesn't run it this way, but it's easy to add simple fixes and a developer is tasked with these things.
I know individual developers don't comment, but it'd be nice if they would acknowledge something has been added to the list of things for future errata from time to time.
Yeah, the book is already 500 pages long. If I grabbed a random dude/lady off the street and asked them they would say you die.
Remember by RAW if there is one reading of the rules that doesn't work and another that does, use the one that does.
So BY RAW you cannot interpret at 0 but not dying and then taking damage as anything other than going to dying 1. Because any other reading doesn't make sense.
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If a character is unconscious at 0 hit points (but not dying), and that character is injured, does he gain the dying condition? If so, please show the page or link indicating it if you can.
From what I can tell an unconscious character at 0 who's not dying doesn't gain the dying condition, but that seems weird and maybe I'm just missing the relevant text.
After a period of time determined by the GM, the unconscious person will return to 1 HP and awaken. So, you can treat them as having 1 HP the moment they are injured with a lethal attack, bringing them into the dying condition as per the death/dying rules.
It's not spelt out necessarily, but given how the unconscious condition works, I'd play it out like that.
This open space to a champion reaction drop the damage to 0 and the 1 HP remain on the character.
The rule is trickier than that.