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The most notable alternative to Pathbuilder 2E I've heard of is Wanderer's Guide, and I haven't tried it myself but I at least know that it contains playtest content, which is one thing Pathbuilder refrains from in the interest of not doubling back on effort. It's a web-based thing that requires registration but is free, it seems. May be worth looking into.
I've been reasonably happy with HeroLab Online.
It is both a subscription model (for access to your saved characters) and a purchase model (for rule sets and character option content). The prices are reasonable (even if I do get annoyed at buying all the content four times (Paizo Subscription, HeroLab data pack, roll20 datapack, fantasy grounds data pack). Each one does price it at a reasonable level for the work they have to do to make the content available, but in aggregate it annoys me.
HLO has been pretty good about getting content out close to the publication date. And they have been pretty good about fixing bugs when found.
I know that Pathbuilder is missing some of the GMG things like the relics, but as far as general options what is really missing?
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I know that Pathbuilder is missing some of the GMG things like the relics, but as far as general options what is really missing?So, yeah, the buying of the information multiple times is the next level of the discussion for me. I don't think I would need to purchase four versions of things but even one digital version in one of those systems means I would essentially purchasing the material twice.
Stupid question maybe: Do people buy straight from those providers and skip buying the hardcopy materials from Paizo? Is that why the prices are so close to the hardcopy prices?
I never really buy hard copies, except as a collector thing.
I prefer digital resources to reference. As for a comparison of buying the rules either as a physical book or digital download versus the price of Herolab...honestly it's likely to just be coincidence of factors, like consumer price tolerance.
You can't read and reference the rules in HLO in a way like you can the rulebooks. But personally I prefer to use Archives of Nethys as my digital rules reference, and already have a good idea of what I want whenever I use HLO.
I know that Pathbuilder is missing some of the GMG things like the relics, but as far as general options what is really missing?So, yeah, the buying of the information multiple times is the next level of the discussion for me. I don't think I would need to purchase four versions of things but even one digital version in one of those systems means I would essentially purchasing the material twice.
Stupid question maybe: Do people buy straight from those providers and skip buying the hardcopy materials from Paizo? Is that why the prices are so close to the hardcopy prices?
I wouldn't expect most people to buy as many online tools' data packs as I do, but I GM a lot, and see a lot of value in the roll20/Fantasy Grounds data packs. I tend to GM on FG and play on roll20, just due to how the numbers of players/gms work out.
For instance on Fantasy Ground, I can have a new PFS scenario ready to run in under an hour in terms of time to extract images/grid the maps, handouts, custom & non custom creature stat blocks, and prebuild all scaled low & high tier encounters. That doesn't need any of the data packs (except maybe the Bestiaries). So I wouldn't "need" the player facing content myself. But Fantasy Ground works best when you have the characters built with their full built-in automation. And since a GM w/ an Ultimate license can share content with free clients while playing, it incentivizes me to get all the content. (Most players prefer Roll20, as a GM I strongly prefer FG, so anything I can do to make the experience better for players is important). I haven't liked FG's prebuilt PFS modules, but I have liked their prebuilt APs, those are definitely worth it from the GM's perspective, and it comes with the player option stuff too.
Some places (FG at least) provides a discount on the data pack if you bought the hardcover or PDF from Paizo directly which helps a bit.
All three (Roll20, FG, HLO) contain all the rules content on individual rules elements, often in a searchable, but not in a long-form readable form so you'd typically still want the full PDF or hardcover. While archives of nethys is close to useable for the long form, often you still need to know where/how they'd categories the content you're looking for and it might be split between multiple entries.
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I don't think the information from the Adventure Paths is in Pathbuilder. I completely understand why, but there's a lot of cool stuff in there that I would also like to have one-shot access to. I am prepping a city-heavy campaign to start about a year from now and loved all the Agents of Edgewatch feats, items, etc. Then I also thought about the other APs that are currently out and that will come out between now and then, and it started to get overwhelming... This is one of the things that led me down this path of looking at digital options.
I found the Bladed Diabolo weapon from Extinction Curse on Pathbuilder. So I guess it is only a matter of time before the AoE things are there too.
Just checked. They have the Fingerprinting kit from AoE 1.
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I don't think the information from the Adventure Paths is in Pathbuilder. I completely understand why, but there's a lot of cool stuff in there that I would also like to have one-shot access to. I am prepping a city-heavy campaign to start about a year from now and loved all the Agents of Edgewatch feats, items, etc. Then I also thought about the other APs that are currently out and that will come out between now and then, and it started to get overwhelming... This is one of the things that led me down this path of looking at digital options.I found the Bladed Diabolo weapon from Extinction Curse on Pathbuilder. So I guess it is only a matter of time before the AoE things are there too.
Just checked. They have the Fingerprinting kit from AoE 1.
Thanks for pointing that out. I just checked and saw they have the Recording Rod, too. I clearly didn't look carefully enough. I had looked for the Edgewatch Detective Dedication feat and didn't see it. I just checked again and still don't see it. But I could custom add those fairly easily with the very small upgrade price.
Interestingly, the Wanderer's Guide mentioned by Alfa/Polaris seems to have all the AoE stuff, too.
In Pathbuilder they call it the Detective dedication because IP I guess. Just as the Pathfinder Agent dedication is called Guild Agent dedication ;-)
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Yeah all 'inworld' proper names will always need to be changed in the third party tools, unless the developer has a specific/negotiated license to use them.
Yeah all 'inworld' proper names will always need to be changed in the third party tools, unless the developer has a specific/negotiated license to use them.
Does that include free tools?
I guess it would because it wouldn't be covered by 3.5 open game license.
In order to avoid any problems with IP, Paizo would have to defend their IP by requesting everyone not use it unless they've negotiated some sort of legal document.
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This is their policy
Thanks!
So if it's free, they should be able to use Paizo IP.
I'm not familiar with Pathbuilder, so I'm a bit confused why they don't.
Maybe they simply don't want the risk.
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Thanks!
So if it's free, they should be able to use Paizo IP.
I'm not familiar with Pathbuilder, so I'm a bit confused why they don't.
Maybe they simply don't want the risk.
Pathbuilder has got a premium version with a few extra features (like animal companions, which the free version lacks), so I guess it can't be considered a free tool. Or rather, the free version could, but at that point they would have to change the names for the premium version only - which is definitely not convenient.
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I hope more TTRPGs publishers will start supporting such tools. I always wished for an app like Lancer's COMP/CON, and don't think we will ever get one (I don't want to go too deeply to it).
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I use Microsoft Word. It makes characters just fine. XD
I hope more TTRPGs publishers will start supporting such tools. I always wished for an app like Lancer's COMP/CON, and don't think we will ever get one (I don't want to go too deeply to it).
I'm also playing Lancer and I love Comp/Con.
I think one of the big differences between a game like Lancer and say PF1 and even PF2 is that there is way more math stuff to keep track of in Pathfinder games.
In Lancer you basically only have grit to remember to add to things, and outside of that it's all situational powers. There's a lot less math that people have to worry about coding, and I think that makes a big difference.
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I use Microsoft Word. It makes characters just fine. XD
Those are outstanding!
When you say 'it makes characters', what do you mean? Do you mean it is great for final presentation of your character (but you generate the stats and descriptions with another software)?
I was joking. I created design styles for final presentation in Microsoft Word. I actually use Microsoft Excel and PathBuilder 2E to ensure accurate stats.