Starship Chase + Dedicated Gunner issues (SOM)

[Ravien999]

So the uniqueness of Gunnery checks and being vs AC allows someone who is a pilot or a gunner to be equally good at their job.

However, in Starship Chases, a gunner is worse than every other role, unless a pilot is acting as a gunner.

100% of all actions in Starship Chases are Skill checks. This puts dedicated gunners at a severe disadvantage.

Gunners in chases make Piloting checks, with a caveat which sounds very similar to the gunnery augment but on analysis it isn't.

SOM wrote:

† A gunner can substitute their base attack bonus for their ranks in Piloting when attempting a Piloting check.

The big variance between gunnery and a skill check is all the added modifiers. In a skill check, most people will also get their +3 class bonus, and most of the skill check balance assumes some amount of insight/other misc bonuses towards high levels.

With a dedicated gunner, you miss out on all of these bonuses. Most classes can remedy the +3 class bonus single rank in Piloting, but a Mystic or Solarian (without Skill Synergy, Star Shaman, or dumping Skill Adept) is going to be at least 3 points worse than everyone else at meeting the same DCs that everyone else has to match.

A stopgap measure is something would be a rule along the lines of "If BAB is used instead of Piloting ranks, treat Piloting as if it was a trained class skill" but as is, it is near impossible as I read for a true gunner (and not a pilot in the gunner seat) to come close to the utility of literally every other option available in a chase, especially as Gunner has no written unique obstacle actions and only one chase action.

(Sidenote, action DC is just 10 or 15 +1-1/2xCR, despite being charted)

[Garretmander]

I don't understand the problem.

As far as I understand:

Each chase round the party does one action, anyone in roles associated with that action can make rolls to try and beat the DC.

On top of that, the GM gives out one obstacle, anyone in roles associated with that can attempt a roll to beat the DC.

All of the chase actions and obstacles other than the covering fire action list at least one other role besides gunner to deal with the problem.

So, typically the gunner is the backup for someone in a more useful role in a chase unless you want to throw a bunch of good gunners into the covering fire action for one round.

[Ravien999]

Garretmander wrote:

I don't understand the problem.

As far as I understand:

Each chase round the party does one action, anyone in roles associated with that action can make rolls to try and beat the DC.

On top of that, the GM gives out one obstacle, anyone in roles associated with that can attempt a roll to beat the DC.

All of the chase actions and obstacles other than the covering fire action list at least one other role besides gunner to deal with the problem.

So, typically the gunner is the backup for someone in a more useful role in a chase unless you want to throw a bunch of good gunners into the covering fire action for one round.

The party has to choose one person to make the check every round. Nobody can "group up" and as such nothing other than the best or second best option need apply.

RAW, there is no reason to ever pick a gunner, because other than one action which may extremely rarely come up, every single other option will always be better than the gunner, and every single gunner obstacle can also be performed by a pilot.

And with the exception of Captain, who is useful for more obstacles, every single role has at least 2 actions they can do in the chase phase, making covering fire never the only option you have.

[Garretmander]

Starship chases; obstacles wrote:

Each round, the GM presents an obstacle the PCs must overcome, and then the PCs select a single chase action for their starship and attempt any associated skill check.

Starship chases; actions wrote:

Once every character has chosen a starship role, the GM can present an obstacle. The PCs then decide together which chase action the starship will take this round and which characters will attempt the skill checks associated with both the obstacle (if present) and the chase action, in that order.

My initial read suggested multiple characters per each check. That might not be the case, but if so, it's indicative of a problem much deeper than just 'gunnery bonus is inherently lower than a character's invested skill bonus'.

So, if that ruling is correct, assuming a party of four:

You take a role at the beginning of each round of the chase.

The GM presents an obstacle. You better hope the role associated with said obstacle is filled, otherwise, automatic failure. If you fill the default roles pilot, science officer, engineer and gunner, then you're safe except for the rolls that specifically require a magic officer or a captain. So, let's be honest. If you want coverage, you need a six man party. Whether your gunner is a gunner or a captain you could still be screwed by a bad GM. Well, or a bad roll if your GM is rolling randomly instead of picking appropriate challenges.

Now you go to your actions. Unless your party is severely unoptimized, you pick whoever has the highest chance of success and let them roll. It's unlikely to be your gunner. End of round.

Seems to me that the gunner option is there just so you have a chance to roll if 2-3 members of your party are bad at starship combat rolls.