Level 13 is a good place to playtest


Gunslinger Class


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Obviously, every level is important to playtest, and a lot of games will never get to level 13 so some players may prefer playtesting at much lower levels, but looking at the gunslinger chassis and feats, it seems like you aren't going to really get a sense for how each way is going to specialize in their thing until at least level 9 and by that point, you might as well take it to level 13 to see what it feels like when you hit that magic legendary proficiency with your gun...So that is what I decided to do, build a level 13 gunslinger to playtest and see how this class feels different from a fighter especially as it levels up. Making higher level characters in complex roleplaying games is always a little bit of a challenge, and it can be an even more difficult challenge in PF2 because assumptions of high level character building in PF2 are pretty radically different than in other Fantasy RPGs. The old mantra of "pick one thing and be good at it" that works incredibly well in PF1/3.x games breaks down a little and it is easy to end up over-specialized in PF2, which will catch a lot of players by surprise. Being ok at a lot of stuff works out very well at lower levels in PF2, and it can continue to work well at higher levels, but being ok at a lot of stuff requires more investment than players might realize. This is especially true with equipment and there are a lot of trap options with equipment purchasing, and peak levels to have certain equipment, while other equipment of the same level, becomes much better for character that are much higher level. I found this to be especially true with weapon property runes and the need to avoid lower level runes that have fixed DCs, while making sure to be able to cover useful damage types. A really, really, cool gunslinger ability would be being able to have scaling DCs on weapon properties like the thundering or frost runes, and would play into the whole crafter feel of the class, but I am getting way off track. I only mention all of this because I think the open playtest format of the recent class playtests is straining the community's ability to learn all the new moving pieces that could potentially work with all the games existing moving pieces, but might not end up working that way. I know it is important to find all of those rough edges in a playtest, but trying to do that at the same time as comment on the general feel of classes and how they are supposed to work can be a real challenge. (We saw that with the magus and its access and interaction with true strike and there are similar potential issues with the possiblity that all gun slingers might be present in the gunslinger, but I don't think I will have the time to look into the staff of divination, brace of pistols gunslinger build, except to say that it is pretty easy to cheese a lot of crits with legendary weapon proficiency, especially if you can get a reliable way to true strike your weapon.)

My level 13 playtest experience:

Sneak Fut
Goblin Charlatan Sniper Gunslinger level 13

STR: 10
DEX: 20
CON: 18
INT: 14
WIS: 12
CHA: 18

HP: 166
AC: 33
Fortitude: +22
Reflex: +25
Will: +19
Perception: +20
Speed: 30ft

Ancestry choices: Goblin
Unbreakable Goblin heritage
Feats:
1. Very Sneaky
5. Bouncy Goblin
9. Roll with it!
13. Very, Very Sneaky

Class Choices:
Way of the sniper
One shot One kill (2d6)
Vital Shot
Feats:
1. Firearm Ace
2. Pistol Twirl (would probably never use)
4. Running reload
6. Alchemical Shot
8. Shooter's Aim
10. Redirecting Shot
12. Shooter's Camouflage

Skills
Master
Deception +23
Stealth +26 (in +2 greater shadow leather)
Acrobatics +24
Trained
Crafting +17
Underworld Lore +17
Athletics +15
Thievery +19
Medicine +16
Society +17
Arcana +17

Skill feats:
Background: Charming Liar
2. Lengthy diversion
4. Confabulator
6. Shadow Mark
8. Slippery Secrets
10. Foil Senses
12. Cat fall

General Feats:
3. Fleet
7. Skitter
11. Discrete Inquiry

Equipment: (Had a lot of trouble choosing here, Ended up not spending most of it as I got weighed down by selection paralysis)

+2 flaming corrosive Greater Striking dueling pistol (+28 to strike / 3d6+4 piercing +1d6 fire +1d6 Acid)
+2 flaming shock arquebus (+28 to strike / 2d8+4 piercing +1d6 flaming +1d6 electricity)

+2 resilient shadow leather.

I would probably spend the rest of the wealth on a bunch of level 11 bombs for using with alchemical shot, being sure to pick up bombs that will turn all the damage to different energy types that will overcome resistances and trigger weaknesses on the nasty high level creatures like undead and fiends.

I am hoping to run this character through a couple of different encounters, hopefully at least one with an alchemist bomber that is willing to share to see how that eases the pressure on the character/ becomes too powerful.

Things that jumped out at me in building.

The Arquebus is a fire and forget weapon for this character. The sniper's first shot is a doozy, and it would be nice to think about a way to put the most powerful rune of the gun that is going to get fired first, but the only way to do that in practice is really to drop the arquebus and just use the dueling pistol, but the sniper really needs the range to be sure to get their one shot off in the first round.

I really, really wanted to be able to put a thundering rune on the arquebus to deafen enemies (especially casters) at the start of the encounter, but unless your character is exactly the right level, that extra feature of the thundering rune is pretty useless when the DC is the same as the average Fort save bonus of equal level enemies.

Redirecting shot feels like it would have a lot of synergy with a bomber alchemist because you can basically give the alchemist a better version of truestrike, but using your attack roll modifier, in exchange for your reaction. If I was really going to run with that, I would keep some loaded throw away pistols that I would draw after firing the first arquebus shot, along side the dueling pistol.

It would be really nice for there to be some kind of quick draw feat that wasn't about fire the weapon drawn, since there are so many interesting reactions that require a loaded gun that you don't really want to waste specialized ammo or runes on. Something like running draw, that let you draw a weapon as a part of a move action. Extra special bonus if it can be done as a part of sneak action since you can't otherwise draw a weapon without being observed.

Otherwise, I was pleasantly surprised at how sniper like this character feels and not like a fighter. The ability to sneak and reload means that the sniper can fire a weapon, hide and sneak, while reloading, letting them be ready to fire again next round.

I really really wanted to build to incorporate pistol twirl into the build, but I can't ever see this character using that instead of hiding and sneaking. I think there is a pistolero build that could have a cheap throw away gun/brace of pistols for pistol twirling and then using that pistol to fire a redirecting shot, but the wording might have to change for that even to be possible because redirecting strike makes an attack roll and I am not sure if pistol twirl's attacks would fit that bill exactly.

Instead the character would probably be better served MCing into rogue at level 2 and picking up sneak attack instead of alchemical shot...Unless there was an alchemist in the party.

Attacking from stealth with legendary proficiency is pretty incredible accuracy. I can't imagine playing a sniper and taking another shot over choosing to hide and sneak.

I do have to say that this is not a character that could be built purely off a fighter. Even only using one weapon group, running reload and firearm ace being usable with the sneak action makes for a really cool sniper.

I imagine this character using alchemical shot on the first round, but only if alchemical shot doesn't ruin your stealth before the shot is taken. I am not sure that is really clear with how the ability is written currently. Then Sneaky Fut hides with their third action. The enemy will know what space Sneaky is in, but that stealth bonus makes it a good waste of enemy actions if they spend actions seeking you, especially as most enemies will only have a 50/50 chance of spotting you if you are in concealment. If you are in cover they they are really going to struggle. Then, as a very very sneaky goblin, you can sneak away even if you can't stay in cover the whole time and you have 30ft of movement while doing so.

Liberty's Edge

MC dedication in Investigator at level 2 and Investigator's stratagem at level 6 might be of interest.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
The Raven Black wrote:
MC dedication in Investigator at level 2 and Investigator's stratagem at level 6 might be of interest.

Certainly if I was going to do the optimal thing and prioritize INT over CHA, I think that makes a lot of sense. The out of combat thing that Sneak Fut has going on is pretty predicated on being good at lying.


How did you find the range of the Arquebus? The lack of range improvements is my major pet peeve with the class and the biggest reason I'm still tempted to play a ranger over it.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

In the game I homebrew for, the lack of range would be a bit of a problem, but if you are avoiding notice, it’s not too difficult to make it your first range increment. As a sniper, your stealth is going to be really good.

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