| ohako |
Hi folks, I guess I've 'come in from the cold', and decided to start trying to learn the 2nd Edition rules. I've been reading over the first rulebook, and I'm thinking about how to re-build a bunch of my 1st Edition pet builds. I could use a little advice, if that's okay.
1) I have a greataxe-wielding half-orc rogue. 1a) Is there a way in 2nd Edition to get sneak attack with a greataxe? (I actually built this character as a protest against D&D 4th Edition rogues.) 1b) Is there a way to get a feat similar to Surprise Follow-Through?
2) I have an Order of the Paw halfling cavalier. Now, if I want a wolf-mounted PC, I basically have to be a goblin, right?
3) I made a team of wolf-mounted halfling PCs, using the bard's inspire courage and the nature oracle's friend to the animals to maximize buffs to the whole party. Is there a similar ability that can give buffs to a bunch of animals that stacks with inspire courage?
4) I haven't picked up the Advanced Players' Guide yet, but do I have it right that an oracle of a given mystery always has the same curse?
5) So I built a white-haired witch back in the day. Would that basically be a witch with the Living Hair feat and multi-classing to monk? I take it that I shouldn't take any monk feats that grant a stance with a specific attack if I want to keep attacking with my hair?
6) Druids can't turn into different creatures anymore? Asking for songbird or hippo builds.
7) I built a bard with fun extra options like Diva Style and the masterpieces from Blood of Angels. 7a) Is there a similar 'fightin' bard' set of feats? 7b) I guess I could multiclass to cleric and pick up some domain focus spells, but since Shelyn (my goddess of choice) doesn't have either the freedom or the sun domain, I couldn't pick up focus spells like the symphony of the Elysian heart or the pallavi of Nirvana's blossoming masterpieces?
8) There's that cool picture of a monk/dragon disciple from the D&D 3.5 DMG. To take the dragon disciple archetype as a monk, first I'd have to 'multiclass archetype' to either a draconic sorcerer or a draconic barbarian, right?
I think that's enough of that. I might have more questions later, but these were the first I could think of trying to slot my square pegs into the round holes of 2nd Ed. Thanks for your time.
| Salamileg |
Going to answer what I can.
1a) There is no way currently to sneak attack with a great axe.
2) Any small character can ride any medium sized creature, that goblin feat just allows you to pick wolf when you otherwise either can't or need GM permission (like the Champion's steed ally). However, if you mount an animal companion that doesn't have the mount ability, then it can't attack and use its support ability in the same turn.
3) Maybe there is one, but in general you won't find many stacking buffs. Buffs from magic are typically status bonuses, such as inspire courage, so you won't find much magic that stacks with it.
4) Correct, mysteries and curses are inherently tied together.
8) The Dragon Disciple archetype is uncommon, but being a dragon barbarian, dragon sorcerer, or kobold makes it not uncommon for you. It's not a prerequisite however, and you can ask your GM to let you use it like all uncommon things.
| HammerJack |
6) Druids can absolutely turn into different creatures. Turning into different creatures cannot do the kind of crazy math adjustments that you can in 1E. So while turning into different creatures is a thing, what those builds do in 1E is not.
Ascalaphus
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1) I have a greataxe-wielding half-orc rogue. 1a) Is there a way in 2nd Edition to get sneak attack with a greataxe? (I actually built this character as a protest against D&D 4th Edition rogues.) 1b) Is there a way to get a feat similar to Surprise Follow-Through?
Base weapon damage is much more important than in 1E where it was more about the static bonuses you put on top of it. As a result, rogues now also get more limits on what weapons they can sneak attack with. Most of them are d4 and d6 weapons. If you want the look of an unusually big rogue, you could make a Ruffian with a longspear though.
The most obvious rogueish way to mimic surprise follow-through would be to take the You're Next and Dread Striker feats. Drop one enemy, intimidate the next one and them being scared makes them flat-footed so you can shank them.
5) So I built a white-haired witch back in the day. Would that basically be a witch with the Living Hair feat and multi-classing to monk? I take it that I shouldn't take any monk feats that grant a stance with a specific attack if I want to keep attacking with my hair?
Yeah. Or you make a monk and multiclass into witch to get the hair. That said, it's not really very good in this edition.
7) I built a bard with fun extra options like Diva Style and the masterpieces from Blood of Angels. 7a) Is there a similar 'fightin' bard' set of feats?
The Warrior Muse is an option if you want a more tactical leader style bard. Or you could pick up the Marshal archetype.
| The Gleeful Grognard |
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1a) Not that I am aware, ruffian gives sneak attack to all simple weapons which includes.
1b) That feat is more a math enhancer than anything else, that is something PF2e tries to avoid. The closest feat would be Swipe which is a level 4 barbarian or fighter feat (level 8 access if you are taking it via a dedication)
2) you can ride a wolf, you just lack the mount special ability if it is an animal companion. It is nice to have but far from necessary for a mount to have.
3) the game doesn't want you stacking math enhancers, certainly not in AoE auroras. If you want to cover more bonuses, grab the marshal archetype.
4) yes, and the curse is a significant trade off that is meant to impact play. Ancestors and Lore are REALLY bad for different reasons.
5) I would probably go monk with a witch archetype instead for a hair witch, but it depends on how much spellcasting you want.
6) Animal form and Aerial form, the druid gets to make them focus spells. These have natural end points though and you are expected to transition to stronger forms in the long run (if you don't you need to invest in handwraps of mighty blows and potency runes to stay viable)
7a) yes warrior muse works well from the apg and there are martial feats / dedications enough to make it work well.
7b) not sure how this is a question.
8) Nope anyone can be a dragon disciple, access just changes it from being uncommon (you need GM approval) to common if you qualify.
Remember that PF2e plays differently to PF1e as well, what is optimial is different. Build your character concepts based on the idea behind them, not trying to match mechanical play styles. You will have characters that play better this way.
Ascalaphus
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With regards to the oracle specifically - IMO the feel of the class has changed significantly. In 1E you could cherrypick a curse that didn't really get into your way, or gave some numerical issue that you could just get around.
2E oracles have a very much "I have all this power and it's out of control" feel to them which can be fun but it's not something you can just push into the background anymore.
I think the Flame mystery is the one that does the best job of balancing the benefits with the downsides, and it's just kinda awesome that when the fiery spirit is upon you you can just basically not see all that much because as far as you're concerned, the whole world is on fire (or will soon be).
So it's a very trippy class now. If you wanted sensible, stable, responsible - this isn't it.
| ohako |
Remember that PF2e plays differently to PF1e as well, what is optimial is different. Build your character concepts based on the idea behind them, not trying to match mechanical play styles. You will have characters that play better this way.
In PF1e I built a half-orc rogue who sneak-attacked with a greataxe, and while it started from a mechanical standpoint (cursing out D&D 4e's Charisma rogues), I really grew to enjoy playing my 'woodcutter', who disdained the idea of rage or anger as a needed component of combat but was still deadly. He also liked to pester dwarven party members if they 'hated' him specifically, and would ask if charmed would they use their +1 to attack against him.
Now it looks like I can be a half-orc Ruffian rogue with the Orc Weapon Familiarity feat but
a) the advanced orc weapon, the necksplitter, is only d8 for damage, but the feat turns the weapon proficiency into martial, which Ruffians can't sneak attack with
b) the falchion and the greataxe, which turn into simple weapons, have too big a damage die for the Ruffian to work with
booo....
Well, hopefully I'll still have my 'deal with a demon' summoner/eidolon combo when that book comes out. Or maybe we'll get 'crappy' materials like bronze that will knock down the damage die on a falchion.
| HammerJack |
a) the advanced orc weapon, the necksplitter, is only d8 for damage, but the feat turns the weapon proficiency into martial, which Ruffians can't sneak attack with
b) the falchion and the greataxe, which turn into simple weapons, have too big a damage die for the Ruffian to work with
I feel that I should point out that these feats are being read incorrectly, so that people don't walk away from this thread with a misconception. Those feats do not make a martial weapon simple and allow ruffians to sneak attack. They make martial weapons simple for the purpose of determining your proficiency.
| ohako |
Quote:I feel that I should point out that these feats are being read incorrectly, so that people don't walk away from this thread with a misconception. Those feats do not make a martial weapon simple and allow ruffians to sneak attack. They make martial weapons simple for the purpose of determining your proficiency.a) the advanced orc weapon, the necksplitter, is only d8 for damage, but the feat turns the weapon proficiency into martial, which Ruffians can't sneak attack with
b) the falchion and the greataxe, which turn into simple weapons, have too big a damage die for the Ruffian to work with
Yeah, I'm a noob at PF2e. Can you tell? ;)