I am about to start playing in this AP as part of a party of 6.
Classes already selected :
- swashbuckler
- Oracle ( not sure which)
- forensic medicine investigator
- alchemist (again not sure which - probably bomber)
Can anyone give me some spoiler free advice on what to play or if there is anything I should absolutely avoid
Probably more along the martial route but melee rogue could be an option?
Any obvious pitfalls to avoid ? For example I assume I don’t want to go skill light given there is investigation elements
Something with good social skills.
If you don't want to be a face-type, then go for a wide range of skills.
Yes, they're be fights, and you'll need to do damage at some point, but there's an strong push to try and talk your way around many fights. Also, Paizo is growing fond of dumping skill check challenges in more and more encounters, often with unexpected skills.
Social skills for a martial seems to be mainly a swashbuckler space...
Perhaps I could be a ruffian or scoundrel rogue as they can work off intimidate or deception in combat and I can add diplomacy. Or perhaps the new elritch one keyed with a charisma based casting class
From what i have seen Champions don't really require charisma any more
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Rogue would be fine. Indeed, given the Skill focus, Rogue is great.
And yeah, looking the book over, good investigative stuff and social skills seem to be the real 'you need these' things in that adventure at the least, with other skills also being solid.
That said, with an Oracle and Swashbuckler in the group, I'd assume social skills are decently well covered, so another person with them would be useful but perhaps not completely required, and someone with high Perception and Wisdom to back up the Investigator on noticing things would also be a solid call. Doing a smattering of both on a Ruffian Rogue is also plausible, and not a bad idea, really.
And Champions don't really require high Cha, but on the other hand they can easily ditch Dex entirely with little issue, meaning all they need is Str, plus some Con and Wis for Saves. Given four ability ups per 5 levels, that leaves plenty of room for Cha if you want it.
I am drawn to Scoundrel even though that is obviously closer to swashbuckler
I am not sure on the Ruffian and ditching Dex as it reduces things like stealth and trap disabling which would generally come expected when some says “I will play a rogue” - despite everyone being able to do it now
The perception angle wasn’t one that I thought of. There doesn’t seem to be a surplus of wisdom so far in the planned party given investigators seem MAD
They might have +2 though
Does “investigative” stuff mean perception to find and social to ask ? And I guess knowledge / lore ?
I looked at mastermind as well. They look MAD too but seem like they should ditch charisma at the very least . Unless they rely on sneak some strength would still be nice . Definitely not the “pseudo” or real front liner I was asking about though . More idle musing
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I am drawn to Scoundrel even though that is obviously closer to swashbuckler
Those are a lot closer thematically, yes.
I am not sure on the Ruffian and ditching Dex as it reduces things like stealth and trap disabling which would generally come expected when some says “I will play a rogue” - despite everyone being able to do it now
I would assume you could clarify that for people pretty readily.
The perception angle wasn’t one that I thought of. There doesn’t seem to be a surplus of wisdom so far in the planned party given investigators seem MAD
They might have +2 though
Investigators get Expert Perception which helps a bit, but yes, more Wisdom and Perception is likely to be good.
Does “investigative” stuff mean perception to find and social to ask ? And I guess knowledge / lore ?
Pretty much, yeah.
So I have played a couple of sessions and am tempted into a rethink.
The GM is allowing PFS rules of a "flexible first level".
What I have found is that in a party of 6 flanking is quite easy. Feinting has proven difficult to pull off at times and even when I give the enemy the extended flat footed someone will open up a flank or trip them which makes it a bit of a waste
The Swashbuckler switched to Gymnast and has been doing trips. That also overlaps with the alternate feint debuff from the first level APG feat (-2 attack) as trip applies both that an Flat footed.
Then there is a point brought up on the 2E board of it being a little disheartening to use sneak and only equal other damage output (due to only 12 strength).
So my options are:
1. Switch to thief still with the 18 Dex and 16 Cha and trying feinting (but also potentially Intimidate) and adding on Swashbuckler dedication as the "free archetype" like planned - choice between Fencer or Braggart
2. Complete switch into Ruffian with 18 Strength, 12 Dex, 14 Con and 14 Charisma. Use the initial Free archetype for Dandy to get three expert skills at Level 2 and then boost Dex at level 5 and get Braggart Swashbuckler at 6
I am leaning towards the latter.
So for Human Ruffian:
1. Nimble Dodge, You're Next (Ancestry), Intimidating Glare, Canny Acumen - Fortitude (Heritage)
2. Brutal Beating, Expert Intimidate, Lie to Me, Dandy Dedication
3. Expert Skill (Athletics or Stealth), Skill Feat, Toughness or Shield Block
4. Dread Striker, Expert Skill, Distracting Flattery (Skill), Gossip Lore (Free)
5. Expert Skill, Skill Feat, Ancestry Feat (?) Stat Boosts
(Boosts seem trickier for this Ruffian. I need Strength, Dex, Charisma and then unsure of Con or Wisdom...)
6. Gang Up (?), Expert Skill, Skill Feat, Swashbuckler (Braggart) Dedication
7. Master Intimidation, Skill Feat (potentially one of the Dandy ones), General Feat - (Toughness, Shield Block, Fleet, Incredible Initiative - these are all tricky to pick from!)
8. Opportune Backstab, Master Skill, Skill Feat, Finishing Precision (Swashbuckler).
9. Master Skill, Skill Feat, Re-train Canny Acumen, Ancestry Feat
(Multi-talented looks good but I am not sure if there is a dedication that would benefit this build at this point. Will not qualify for any that require Int or Wisdom...)
10. Vicious Debilitations, Master Skill, Skill Feat, Swashbuckler's Speed, Stat Boosts (probably leave Dex after unlocking Swashbuckler and switch to Strength, Con, Wisdom and Charisma for the remainder)
Any thoughts or tips? Any glaring oversights?
Hmm I have just realised that intimidating prowess doesn’t stack with the bonus to intimidate from braggart panache which is probably a flaw in the plan as it reduces the usefulness of that dedication to just granting a movement bonus
Might change my plans