Tangleburn Bags, Create Water & Alchemist Shenanigans


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

So here's an interesting one from a player who'll be at one of my tables for GenCon:

Tangleburn Bag (150gp)
This sack contains tanglefoot bag materials and alchemical powders that burn at a high temperature. It functions like a tanglefoot bag, plus a direct hit on a creature deals 1d6 points of fire damage, and the creature must make a DC 20 Reflex save or catch on fire. If it catches on fire, for the next 2 rounds extinguishing the flames is a DC 25 Reflex save instead of a DC 15 save, and using water to extinguish the flames creates a burst of burning material equivalent to alchemist’s fire making a direct hit on the target (including splash damage). After the initial 2 rounds, the flames may be extinguished as normal. Crafting this item is a DC 30 Craft (alchemy) check.

Said player has levels in rogue and alchemist, and has the ability to use the spell create water. When initially thrown, the tangleburn bag isn't a splash weapon, but if it's extinguished using water in the first 2 rounds, it creates a burst effect equivalent to a direct hit with an alchemist fire. You may be able to guess where this goes, but here are the questions/implications in order:

1) Will the alchemist using Create Water generate that effect? This one seems like an easy yes.

2) Since its the alchemist doing it, and it generates a splash effect, should the alchemist get the bonus damage from his Throw Anything bonus feat and class feature? Should he be able to use feats like Concentrated Splash on his target?

Create Water doesn't require any sort of touch attack, and allows you to place the water fairly precisely if you're within close range (you just can't cause the water to appear inside a creature or the like). Clearly this is cheese, but that doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't work, particularly if he's willing to spend 2 turns in order to generate the effect.

Thoughts?

Liberty's Edge

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1) No problem, the water from Create water works.

2) No alchemist bonus for the damage. The alchemist isn't using a splash weapon, he is using Create water.

Low damage cheese, not a problem.

I am more concerned with the description of the bag, as it isn't clear if using the water extinguish the fire or not.

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