How does lingering composition affect inspire competence?


Rules Discussion


The bard focus spell inspire competence counts as taking sufficient actions for the aid reaction. If I were to use lingering composition to extend the duration, would that allow me to use the reaction more than once? Or would the first use of aid end inspire competence?


I don't think there would be much point in doing that. Inspire Competence counts as the preparatory Action that the Aid Reaction requires, but that would only be for that one Reaction.

So, while Inspire Competence might last 4 Rounds with Lingering Composition, you would still have to spend an Action preparing to Aid each Round that you wanted to use the Aid Reaction, so you may as well just cast Inspire Competence again instead.

Liberty's Edge

Since it lacks any wording that prohibits the one use of the Action spent for Ling Comp to count for multiple reactions I think it works just fine.

So your result would be:
Lingering Composition Check determines the additional rounds from none to 3 or 4 rounds> Cast Inspire Competence > Ally uses a skill > Bard uses their 1 Reaction for this round > Bards turn again, your Composition is still ongoing and you do not need to repeat it > Do whatever you like > Ally uses a skill > Bard uses their 1 Reaction for this round > Rinse repeat until the Composition runs out of time

I'm not seeing anything that states that the composition itself stops at all once you use your Reaction, it's simply gated in most scenarios to working this way because typically most Characters only get 1 Reaction per turn.


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Themetricsystem wrote:

Since it lacks any wording that prohibits the one use of the Action spent for Ling Comp to count for multiple reactions I think it works just fine.

So your result would be:
Lingering Composition Check determines the additional rounds from none to 3 or 4 rounds> Cast Inspire Competence > Ally uses a skill > Bard uses their 1 Reaction for this round > Bards turn again, your Composition is still ongoing and you do not need to repeat it > Do whatever you like > Ally uses a skill > Bard uses their 1 Reaction for this round > Rinse repeat until the Composition runs out of time

I'm not seeing anything that states that the composition itself stops at all once you use your Reaction, it's simply gated in most scenarios to working this way because typically most Characters only get 1 Reaction per turn.

Inspire Competence only counts as preparatory actions "to Aid your ally on a skill check of your choice". That is singular.

The spell would last for multiple rounds, and you can use Performance to Aid during the entire duration, but for every check beyond the first, you would need to use an action to prepare.

Liberty's Edge

I uh... disagree, respectfully, that interpretation of the word "a" as meaning one and only one would utterly destroy the functionality of nearly all other Composition Cantrips.

If you were to enforce that kind of reading Inspire Courage would only EVER apply to a single roll for any and all Allies since it's worded in the same way...

Inspire Courage wrote:
You and all allies in the area gain a +1 status bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, and saves against fear effects.

So what you're arguing with that position is that once you, the bard, or any other ally takes an Action that can benefit from the status bonus to the varying rolls that the Composition can no longer benefit anyone else.

The "a skill check of your choice" wording exists only to indicate that you the bard get to choose which of the allies skill checks to apply it to.

Of course there is room for interpretation but I think that is clear that you count the initial performance Action you spend as the preparation for any and all Skill Checks that are attempted by allies in range of your Comp for the entire duration of the spell. This is no more unbalanced than letting the Bard save actions with any other Comp Cantrip which has a 1-round duration, saving actions is saving actions - is saving actions. If the effect of the Inspire Competetence was meant to NOT function with Lingering Comp then they would have changed any one of the Spell Variables so that Lingering Comp cannot interact with it or otherwise call out that the Composition is "Consumed/Ends" after the Skill Check is resolved and that wording is flat out not present.

The first portion of the Inspire Competence description exists to demonstrate that the Bard need not spend any further actions to use the Aid Reaction for Skill Checks made by allies for the entire duration of the Spell. If they meant to indicate that it was only EVER going to be good for a SINGLE Skill Check they would have printed "one" instead of "a" IMO. The usage of "a" is RIFE in the book and taking the position that when "a" is used that it should only ever apply in a singular instance before its benefit is lost would have incredibly far-reaching impacts that would be a nerf to literally hundreds of other abilities and features that impact every Class in the system.

Enforcing this type of reading would straight up destroy the functionality of literally all other Bard Composition Cantrips.

EDIT: Initially my reply was a tad too insulting in retrospect so I adjusted it.


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Courage is inclusive and plural.


Themetricsystem wrote:

I uh... disagree, respectfully, that interpretation of the word "a" as meaning one and only one would utterly destroy the functionality of nearly all other Composition Cantrips.

If you were to enforce that kind of reading Inspire Courage would only EVER apply to a single roll for any and all Allies since it's worded in the same way...

Inspire Courage wrote:
You and all allies in the area gain a +1 status bonus to attack rolls, damage rolls, and saves against fear effects.

So what you're arguing with that position is that once you, the bard, or any other ally takes an Action that can benefit from the status bonus to the varying rolls that the Composition can no longer benefit anyone else.

The "a skill check of your choice" wording exists only to indicate that you the bard get to choose which of the allies skill checks to apply it to.

Of course there is room for interpretation but I think that is clear that you count the initial performance Action you spend as the preparation for any and all Skill Checks that are attempted by allies in range of your Comp for the entire duration of the spell. This is no more unbalanced than letting the Bard save actions with any other Comp Cantrip which has a 1-round duration, saving actions is saving actions - is saving actions. If the effect of the Inspire Competetence was meant to NOT function with Lingering Comp then they would have changed any one of the Spell Variables so that Lingering Comp cannot interact with it or otherwise call out that the Composition is "Consumed/Ends" after the Skill Check is resolved and that wording is flat out not present.

The first portion of the Inspire Competence description exists to demonstrate that the Bard need not spend any further actions to use the Aid Reaction for Skill Checks made by allies for the entire duration of the Spell. If they meant to indicate that it was only EVER going to be good for a SINGLE Skill Check they would have printed "one" instead of "a" IMO. The usage of "a" is RIFE in the book...

I disagree. The "a" in Inspire Courage is referring to how many Bonuses you get, not how many Rolls that Bonus applies to. You only get a single +1 Bonus, but that Bonus applies to all Attack and Damage Rolls, as well as Saves against Fear.

For it to do what you are saying, it would have to say "You and all allies in the area gain a +1 status bonus to an attack roll, damage roll, or save against fear, of your choice."

It's a lot more than just the word "a". If I tell you to pick "an item of your choice" off of the menu, it's clear that is singular. Inspire Courage uses the exact same wording.

I'm not sure why any of this would make you feel the need to type an insulting response. I'm not attacking or insulting you, I just have a different viewpoint.

Grankless wrote:
Courage is inclusive and plural.

I don't see what relevance that has to anything. The word courage only appears in the name of the Spell, not the rules text.


By my reading, Grankless was saying that "[The wording of Inspire] Courage is inclusive and plural", not that the word "courage" itself is. So basically, what you said but in less detail.

_
glass.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Slight thread necromancy, sorry!

Any other thoughts on this? I'm seeing three possibilities, that Lingering Composition ...

1) serves as a standing preparation, rendering the Bard prepared to Aid each round Inspire Competence is active.
2) allows the Bard to be prepared to Aid once over the course of Inspire Competence's extended duration.
3) has no effect on Inspire Competence.

Aid doesn't necessarily require a preparatory action ("usually by using an action during your turn"), so 1) and 2) both seem plausible. 3) seems out if only because the Inspire Competence rules text would have screamed for a note indicating as much, but maybe the rules interaction between the two spells was overlooked.

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