Whenever you sustain the spell to move the sphere, the sphere needs to rolled somewhere within range (30ft of the caster). The caster can move away from the sphere further than 30 feet without any problems.
Whenever you sustain the spell to move the sphere, the sphere needs to rolled somewhere within range (30ft of the caster). The caster can move away from the sphere further than 30 feet without any problems.
The Spell would end on their next turn if the caster moved more than 30 feet away, as the sphere would be outside the Range of the Spell, and Spells have no effect beyond their Range. The caster would not be able to Sustain it.
Ranges, Areas, and Targets
Spells with a range can affect targets, create areas, or make things appear only within that range. Most spell ranges are measured in feet, though some can stretch over miles, reach anywhere on the planet, or go even farther!
@Aratorin
Flaming sphere is not causing an effect on a target, creating an area or making anything appear when the caster moves further than 30 feet of the sphere, so this line shouldn't apply.
Similarly, spells like Wall of Fire do not disappear when the caster moves out of range, and a spell like Fear does not need the caster to constantly stay within 30 feet of the target after the initial effect.
@Aratorin
Flaming sphere is not causing an effect on a target, creating an area or making anything appear when the caster moves further than 30 feet of the sphere, so this line shouldn't apply.Similarly, spells like Wall of Fire do not disappear when the caster moves out of range, and a spell like Fear does not need the caster to constantly stay within 30 feet of the target after the initial effect.
Right. I didn't say it would end immediately.
Neither of those Spells are Sustained. You cannot fulfill the Sustain requirements of Flaming Sphere, which you posted above, if you are not in Range.
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I'm confused as to what you mean - the spell specifies you have to roll the sphere into a square within range, not that it has to be from a square within range.
Aratorin, your reading of the range rule preventing a caster from moving more than 30 feet from their flaming sphere and them moving it to a spot within range the next time they sustain it seems like it would also prevent a fireball spell having it's full burst radius if the point chosen for the origin of the blast is at the edge of the spell's listed range.
That seems like indication that the range rules are meant only to govern the start of an effect, not the entire life of a spell effect.
Oh, man, I really don't want this to get heated again.
The range rules do prevent the area of Fireball going outside the Range of the Spell.
Ranges, Areas, and Targets
Spells with a range can affect targets, create areas, or make things appear only within that range. Most spell ranges are measured in feet, though some can stretch over miles, reach anywhere on the planet, or go even farther!
Which is likely one of the reasons it has such an absurdly long range. In actual play, it's basically never going to come up that someone casts a Fireball at a point 480-500 feet away.
As to the discussion at hand...
Yes, I'll concede that I misread the Spell. I thought you could only move it 5', which would make moving it back into Range very difficult.
Flaming Sphere lets you do two things when you sustain, move it (to a square within range) or keep it where it is, damaging creatures in that square. It could be argued (and I probably would argue) that you can't keep the sphere in a space outside of the spell's range, but that's a bit of a grey area (I would be interpreting this as the spell creating an area outside of the range).
However, there is no need to keep within 30 feet of the sphere as a caster. For all intents and purposes, the spell functions much like Spiritual Weapon and it doesn't really matter where the sphere is after you sustain.
"Does a burst's origin point need to be within the range of a spell, or does the entire area need to be within range?" is a separate question, probably meriting it's own thread.
Don't forget the text on page 444 "If a rule seems to have wording with problematic repercussions or doesn’t work as intended, work with your group to find a good solution, rather than just playing with the rule as printed." which would definitely apply to a spell not being able to function as written (pick a point up to 500 feet away from you and a 20-foot radius burst happens at that point being what the spell says, but an overly-strict reading of the range rules making that some weird lemon-shaped half-burst instead)
The problem with that rule is that you think it applies to this scenario and I don't.
The aoe of a Fireball vanishing at the end of it's Range isn't any different than the Electric Arc being able to jump 30' north and then 60' south, but not 30' north and then 5' north argument.
A Spell cannot affect anything beyond its Range.
A Spell cannot affect anything beyond its Range.So you're saying all I have to do to end the effect of a debuff with a duration on my character is move further away from the caster?
No. I did not say that. You are not debating in good faith.
You cannot cast a debuff beyond a Spell's Range, and you cannot create an Area of Effect beyond a Spell's Range. A Player's failure to read the Range rules is not the GM blindsiding them.
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the line "Spells with a range can.. create areas.. only within that range" could be interpreted either way as far fireball is concerned - it depends wholly on the meaning of "creating an area" which is never fully defined in the CRB, leaving it fairly open to interpretation.
Regardless, I feel like this is the topic of a new thread as it doesn't really relate to the answer of the OPs question.
Given that Aratorin (seemingly at least) said they had been mistaken about flaming sphere, I can't really see how that conversation can continue in regards to fireball.
Given that Aratorin (seemingly at least) said they had been mistaken about flaming sphere, I can't really see how that conversation can continue in regards to fireball.
You are correct. I already conceded the point around Flaming Sphere. The tangential discussion about Fireball is not relevant to the OP's question.
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You are not debating in good faith.Aren't accusations of that against the rules? You can report me if you think I'm doing something wrong, but don't try to use an accusation as a counter-argument.
What you just did is a CLASSIC "debating in bad faith" move.
Don't do it if you want to avoid embarrassing yourself.
Ah, yes, the good 'ol "so you're saying." Sure, it occasionally comes from a genuine misunderstanding and a desire for clarification, but from my personal experience that's rather rare.
LOL. Opened a bunch of threads at once, new ones and old ones for research both. Didn't even realize I was necro'ing this. Sorry guys.