Fey glamour duration

[Ravingdork]

If I cast fey glamour as a 9th-level spell to duplicate illusory scene, is the duration 10 minutes, or unlimited?

I'm wondering which rule overrides which.

[Aratorin]

Ravingdork wrote:

If I cast fey glamour as a 9th-level spell to duplicate illusory scene, is the duration 10 minutes, or unlimited?

I'm wondering which rule overrides which.

The answer is actually in Fey Glamour's Description.

Quote:

You call upon fey glamours to cloak an area or the targets in illusion. This has the effect of either illusory scene on the area or veil on the creatures, as if heightened to a level 1 level lower than fey glamour, using fey glamour’s range and duration.

[thenobledrake]

Fey glamour is the more specific rule element, as is the sentence stating to use its range and duration.

[Ravingdork]

I wasn't so sure of that, but thanks all the same.

Even if you're correct, I can easily see it being interpreted thus: Changing the duration doesn't change the 8th-level heighten effect. Instead of 1 hour becoming unlimited, it's 10 minutes becoming unlimited.

[Mark Seifter]

There's a lot of things that can be uncertain in rules, but I can assure you we will never intend to tell you that something uses another thing's effects with a set of listed exceptions and then expect you to not apply the exceptions where they contradict the other thing's effects.

[Aratorin]

Yay, an official response! If you're bored good sir, maybe you could respond to a few hundred more of them and clear some stuff up? Please? :-)

[Ravingdork]

Mark Seifter wrote:

There's a lot of things that can be uncertain in rules, but I can assure you we will never intend to tell you that something uses another thing's effects with a set of listed exceptions and then expect you to not apply the exceptions where they contradict the other thing's effects.

So, in effect, there is no 8th-level heighten benefit once you're able to cast the focus spell as a 9th-level spell?

Thank you for the clarification, Mark, but that kind of sucks (in that it's clearly not as powerful now).

If you have a moment, there's a drought of information over in this thread that seems to have lots of people thirsting for answers.

[Aratorin]

Ravingdork wrote:

Mark Seifter wrote:

There's a lot of things that can be uncertain in rules, but I can assure you we will never intend to tell you that something uses another thing's effects with a set of listed exceptions and then expect you to not apply the exceptions where they contradict the other thing's effects.

So, in effect, there is no 8th-level heighten benefit once you're able to cast the focus spell as a 9th-level spell?

Thank you for the clarification, Mark, but that kind of sucks (in that it's clearly not as powerful now).

If you have a moment, there's a drought of information over in this thread that seems to have lots of people thirsting for answers.

There's the benefit that it's harder to counteract.

[thenobledrake]

Ravingdork wrote:

Thank you for the clarification, Mark, but that kind of sucks (in that it's clearly not as powerful now).

The point of the focus spell in question appears not to be equal to the two spells it can produce the effects of or be improvements of them, but to provide a way to cast those spells via a different resource to free up some spell slots.

Also illusory scene is improved via fey glamour because of the casting time difference, so there's definitely a worthwhile choice going on when it comes to choosing to rely on the focus spell or to have both other spells on hand as higher-level spells.

[Ravingdork]

Yes, thenobledrake, I did note the spellcasting time difference, so there's that at least. Still, I'm not sure how useful casting an illusion in combat in front of your enemy is going to be.

Spending a feat on a single spell always struck me as rather lackluster, but spending a feat on what amounts to an ability that is, in many ways, weaker than the spell it emulates just strikes me as, well, worse than lackluster.

[thenobledrake]

Spending a feat on a single spell? That's not a thing in PF2 as far as I am aware.

A focus spell could easily be cast 8 or more times in a day. Heck, not just a month ago I saw a single in-game day contain 21 castings a lay on hands thanks to particular variables.

That's definitely a thing that's worth a spending a feat on.

[Ravingdork]

I was thinking of runescars, arcane tattoos, and similar feats that grant weak spells at will or standard spells only once per day.

[Malk_Content]

Ravingdork wrote:

Yes, thenobledrake, I did note the spellcasting time difference, so there's that at least. Still, I'm not sure how useful casting an illusion in combat in front of your enemy is going to be.

Spending a feat on a single spell always struck me as rather lackluster, but spending a feat on what amounts to an ability that is, in many ways, weaker than the spell it emulates just strikes me as, well, worse than lackluster.

Well casting in front of the enemy, sure probably not going to work very well. The shortened cast time still works wonders. Imagine a fairly common scenario, you are being chased. You round a corner and break line of sight for just a moment. That moment is long enough to conjure up the image of 10 or your heavily armed buddies. Maybe now your pursuer will have a change of heart.