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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
On my first read-through of circus mechanics, I'm left a little confused as to the rationale behind the mechanics of critical success for both tricks and the show.
- It seems that a critically successful trick may imperil a normal success for a show, as it generates no more excitement than a merely successful trick and also causes anticipation to increase. In one way this is intuitive: A very impressive trick may raise expectations among the audience, who in turn may be left disappointed by the more-modest performances that follow. On the other hand, it creates the potential for a show going from success to failure entirely due to some of the tricks having been critical successes instead of mere successes.
- A critically successful show is one in which final excitement is equal to final anticipation. This I just don't get: In what sense is it "critical success" that anticipation was met exactly by excitement generated? Absent this rule I would have called that a show of precisely marginal success. Doesn't this create situations in which is it desirable to fail a trick so as to lower excitement closer to anticipation?
- Finally, the first show only has an XP award on a non-critical success. I'm guessing this is a simple omission and is trivial to fill out, but just checking to make sure I'm not missing something.
I'm not a dev, but I think I can answer question #2: because the regular mechanism for determining a critical doesn't work here. (You can't have a critical simply by having Excitement exceed Anticipation by 10; that becomes way too easy at any level except perhaps the first). So another mechanism is needed. As I see it the other option would be something like "exceeds Anticipation by 50%", meaning that if a later show has 40 Anticipation, you'd get a critical on 60 Excitement.
But that's mostly just complicated to calculate, and still might make achieving criticals too easy. I can totally see why the devs ended up with "exactly the same" as the easy target that involves zero calculation, and ensures that a critical remains difficult to achieve no matter your proficiencies.
Tarpeius wrote: - Finally, the first show only has an XP award on a non-critical success. I'm guessing this is a simple omission and is trivial to fill out, but just checking to make sure I'm not missing something. Again, not a dev but yes, this seems likely, and I can't see that you have missed anything.
How about replacing
"If the show generates more Excitement than its Anticipation (of 15), award the heroes 80 XP."
with
"If the show generates Excitement equal to or in excess of its Anticipation (of 15), award the heroes 80 XP."
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Tarpeius wrote: On my first read-through of circus mechanics, I'm left a little confused as to the rationale behind the mechanics of critical success for both tricks and the show.
- It seems that a critically successful trick may imperil a normal success for a show, as it generates no more excitement than a merely successful trick and also causes anticipation to increase. In one way this is intuitive: A very impressive trick may raise expectations among the audience, who in turn may be left disappointed by the more-modest performances that follow. On the other hand, it creates the potential for a show going from success to failure entirely due to some of the tricks having been critical successes instead of mere successes.
This has the biggest effect at level 1, because adding only half the level to the Anticipation is the same amount as Excitement (as half of 1 is 1). Particularly for this first circus performance, you might decide that the addition of 1 more Anticipation on a critical success is optional.
Tarpeius wrote: - A critically successful show is one in which final excitement is equal to final anticipation. This I just don't get: In what sense is it "critical success" that anticipation was met exactly by excitement generated? Absent this rule I would have called that a show of precisely marginal success. Doesn't this create situations in which is it desirable to fail a trick so as to lower excitement closer to anticipation? Because this means absolutely no one was left unsatisfied; no one had any expectations that weren't met exactly. It's intentionally hard to do and, as Zapp points, out, something that remains consistently more difficult than mere success. This aspect of the circus rules isn't about doing as well as absolutely possible, but by rewarding more precision in the show.
Tarpeius wrote: - Finally, the first show only has an XP award on a non-critical success. I'm guessing this is a simple omission and is trivial to fill out, but just checking to make sure I'm not missing something. This 80 XP amount applies on a critical success as well as a success. Generally, in Pathfinder Second Edition rules, if something details an effect on a success but nothing for a critical success, the effect applies for a critical success, too.
Ron Lundeen wrote: Tarpeius wrote: - Finally, the first show only has an XP award on a non-critical success. I'm guessing this is a simple omission and is trivial to fill out, but just checking to make sure I'm not missing something. This 80 XP amount applies on a critical success as well as a success. Generally, in Pathfinder Second Edition rules, if something details an effect on a success but nothing for a critical success, the effect applies for a critical success, too.
Sure Ron, but since circus shows works differently than regular task resolution, I wouldn't just rely on a basic principle fall-back as my response.
After all, the text says, and I quote:
"If the show generates more Excitement than its Anticipation (of 15), award the heroes 80 XP."
Note how neither success nor critical success is referenced by this text.
PS. Don't get me wrong, both Tarpeius and me clearly understand what the RAI is here. :)
Zapp wrote: PS. Don't get me wrong, both Tarpeius and me clearly understand what the RAI is here. :) Oh, good!
As a player, level 5, I may not have complete info. But I do have the following:
Perform a Trick (one action)
Critical Success: 1.5*Lvl Excitement, 0.5*Lvl Anticipation (round up)
Success: Lvl Excitement
Failure: No effect
Critical Failure: -0.5*Lvl Excitement (rounded up)
This can change Excitement, but if it also changes Anticipation, it does so 1:1 with extra Excitement. So on a success or crit success you have a net +level in Excitement.
One of the NPC rolls is the Bandleader. This NPC can generate Anticipation equal to half the Bandleader's level, rounded up. Therefore this can increase Anticipation if needed.
Since both can be increased independently, even when critting a trick, the possibility of critting a show is manageable.
My party was lucky and crit the two shows we have had. Even after the random even animal chaos skewed the target we were aiming for.
With the pre-show effects, I imagine you could crit any show if you try hard enough. [We had to NOT send in the clowns on one failed trick in the last act to make the second crit.]
/cevah
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