Can you take heightened innate spells?

[Ravingdork]

If an ability gives you an innate spell, can you choose a spell heightened to the appropriate level? Why or why not?

[beowulf99]

That depends. If the innate spell is a Cantrip, it is automatically heightened. If the innate spell has a level, the ability that grants you the spell will typically indicate what level the spell is cast at, and possibly it's DC as well, this depends on the spell in question and the ability that granted the innate spell.

CRB PG. 302 "Innate Spells" wrote:

Innate cantrips are cast at will and automatically heightened as
normal for cantrips (see Cantrips on page 300) unless
otherwise specified...

You can’t use your spell slots to cast your innate
spells, but you might have an innate spell and
also be able to prepare or cast the same spell
through your class. You also can’t heighten
innate spells, but some abilities that
grant innate spells might give you the
spell at a higher level than its base level or
change the level at which you cast the spell.

[Ravingdork]

I'm referring to higher than 1st-level innate spells.

It seems to me that you could say, pick a 5th-level magic missile as your 5th-level innate spell (provided something gave you a 5th-level innate spell). However, the fact that all the spellcasting classes need class abilities to heighten spells gives me pause, and is why I'm asking.

[Aratorin]

Ravingdork wrote:

I'm referring to higher than 1st-level innate spells.

It seems to me that you could say, pick a 5th-level magic missile as your 5th-level innate spell (provided something gave you a 5th-level innate spell). However, the fact that all the spellcasting classes need class abilities to heighten spells gives me pause, and is why I'm asking.

Virtue-Forged Tattoos specifically says you can do this. Which side of the argument that helps, I'm not sure.

Rather than debating theoreticals, what specific ability are you looking at?

[Ravingdork]

Aratorin wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

I'm referring to higher than 1st-level innate spells.

It seems to me that you could say, pick a 5th-level magic missile as your 5th-level innate spell (provided something gave you a 5th-level innate spell). However, the fact that all the spellcasting classes need class abilities to heighten spells gives me pause, and is why I'm asking.

Virtue-Forged Tattoos specifically says you can do this. Which side of the argument that helps, I'm not sure.

Rather than debating theoreticals, what specific ability are you looking at?

At the moment I'm looking at the Arcane Tattoos line of Human feats as well as the Runescarred archetype feats. My question is pretty general though, and is meant to cover other sources of innate spells as well.

[Aratorin]

Ravingdork wrote:

Aratorin wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

I'm referring to higher than 1st-level innate spells.

It seems to me that you could say, pick a 5th-level magic missile as your 5th-level innate spell (provided something gave you a 5th-level innate spell). However, the fact that all the spellcasting classes need class abilities to heighten spells gives me pause, and is why I'm asking.

Virtue-Forged Tattoos specifically says you can do this. Which side of the argument that helps, I'm not sure.

Rather than debating theoreticals, what specific ability are you looking at?

At the moment I'm looking at the Arcane Tattoos line of Human feats as well as the Runescarred archetype feats. My question is pretty general though, and is meant to cover other sources of innate spells as well.

So the Human line specifically says yes. The Runescarred line doesn't, so not really sure.

[Kennethray]

I'm wondering if a spell is considered a certain level and only gains the higher level after an ability heightens it. I would lean towards yes, which would make the answer to your question a no. But I cannot see any rules that would support either way.

[Kennethray]

After rereading innate spells the last line says -You also can’t heighten innate spells, but some abilities that grant innate spells might give you the spell at a higher level than its base level or change the level at which you cast the spell.

That suggest that you could take a innate spell that is a heightened version of a lower level spell.

Looks like it would be ability dependent.

[Riktuk]

Aratorin wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

I'm referring to higher than 1st-level innate spells.

It seems to me that you could say, pick a 5th-level magic missile as your 5th-level innate spell (provided something gave you a 5th-level innate spell). However, the fact that all the spellcasting classes need class abilities to heighten spells gives me pause, and is why I'm asking.

Virtue-Forged Tattoos specifically says you can do this. Which side of the argument that helps, I'm not sure.

Rather than debating theoreticals, what specific ability are you looking at?

Here's an example from an item: gold nodule aeon stone's resonant power [CRB 605]. Base 2nd level comprehend languages? 3rd level, since it's a Level 6 item and spellcasters of Level 6 have access to 3rd level spells?