All bestiary animals frightened 4 at start of combat?

[Sapphire Onion]

Under the CRB rules for animals: "Most animals panic in battle. When combat begins, they become frightened 4 and fleeing as long as they’re frightened."

The only exceptions called out explicitly are the warhorse and warpony.

For everything else it just refers to the bestiary.

If true, this seems to make all animals in the bestiary rather pointless as threats (e.g. T-Rex, Azure Worm).

Is there a rule somewhere that says otherwise? A scan of the bestiary turned up nothing obvious.

[Gorbacz]

Yeah, it's called "common sense".

[Zapp]

Gorbacz wrote:

Yeah, it's called "common sense".

Yeah.

But to help the OP, maybe we could point to the wording "most animals".

I believe it would help if we suggest the following definition of "most":

"Most animals panic in battle, except those the GM decides does not panic in battle."

Nobody can say this isn't a valid reading of the RAW.

You're welcome :)

[Ascalaphus]

This text about panicking animals appears in the equipment section, talking about domesticated animals that you buy. You shouldn't apply it to wild animals.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

It is in the equipment section and isn't to do with the animal trait. This is specifically about beasts of burden and the like.

Context matters.

[Sapphire Onion]

Gorbacz wrote:

Yeah, it's called "common sense".

Well obviously. I just find common sense isn't that common.

Also, I am used to playing, or with folk who play, pathfinder society, where you are not allowed to deviate from or creatively interpret the rules. I was hoping there was something/anything I could point at.

[Gorbacz]

ZomB wrote:

Gorbacz wrote:

Yeah, it's called "common sense".

Well obviously. I just find common sense isn't that common.

Also, I am used to playing, or with folk who play, pathfinder society, where you are not allowed to deviate from or creatively interpret the rules. I was hoping there was something/anything I could point at.

Come back and tell me if anybody at any PFS table you played ran it so like the OP suggests.

[beowulf99]

Well, frankly, you could very well run most creatures with the Animal trait this way in certain situations. Bears, bats, wolves, etc.. all have that trait. And it even could make sense if they feel that they are badly outmatched.

This amounts to common sense. A black bear for instance is pretty skittish and probably won't attack you without provocation. A Grizzly on the other hand can be fiercely territorial and could attack even much stronger foes. Deer are classically skittish while Moose are.. well jerks. They'll kill you for no reason.

I would like to generally see some nuance to how "standard" animals, and really just enemies in RPG's in general, behave when confronted by a band of Player Characters. I mean by level 3 or 4 you are beginning to look like people that your average Yogi bear isn't going to mess with.

What happens when Sir Stabbalot wearing blood red enchanted platemail dual wielding enchanted picks, surrounded by equally bloodthirsty and powerful looking individuals enters a bear den? I imagine there will be lots of fear. Even a 1st level party at worst look like well prepared humans who have been subjugating the land for 100's of years. Natural Predators aren't likely to pick a fight with them lightly.

Edit: Before we get all serious, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. The OP has a point. Nothing in the Bestiary or CRB mentions that non-store bought animals don't behave this way. And there is a bit of sense to that stance. Though I agree that not all creatures would immediately be frightened and fleeing.

[Ubertron_X]

beowulf99 wrote:

What happens when Sir Stabbalot wearing blood red enchanted platemail dual wielding enchanted picks, surrounded by equally bloodthirsty and powerful looking individuals enters a bear den? I imagine there will be lots of fear.

Honey badger don't care!

[FlashRebel]

I join Ascalaphus on this one: it's a rule that only involves tamed animals not of the companion type.

For random encounters, every animal in the bestiary has some text about their usual behaviour. As a general rule, most prey animals don't look for a fight and run away whenever they can. Predators vary in behaviour with some only attacking in groups and fleeing otherwise, others fighting and fleeing when they get seriously hurt and a few fighting very aggressively and sometimes to the death in some circumstances.

[HammerJack]

Sapphire Onion wrote:

Gorbacz wrote:

Yeah, it's called "common sense".

Well obviously. I just find common sense isn't that common.

Also, I am used to playing, or with folk who play, pathfinder society, where you are not allowed to deviate from or creatively interpret the rules. I was hoping there was something/anything I could point at.

This exercise of common sense, determining whether a particular animal falls under the "most animals" that are frightened at the start of combat, is absolutely within your discretion as a GM in PFS.

If a scenario includes an animal being frightened in combat, explicitly, that is a mechanic to run as written. The idea that you are obligated to surrender all judgement as a GM to any poorly rules-layered argument presented at the table is nonsense, though. If you find situations where the rules are nebulous, you can and should use your judgement.