Help with an investigator build


Advice


Looking at an investigator for a Kingmaker AP run.
Below is my first run at it. Needs some help. Obviously good at skill, but I think it is lacking in combat capability.

Nothing is really set about the build yet. Just want a very solid skill monkey, that is at least halfway decent in combat.

What would you suggest?

Miles Naismith Vorkosigan:

Male ratfolk investigator (empiricist) 3 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 30, 100, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 3 231)
NG Small humanoid (ratfolk)
Hero Points 1
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +11
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Defense
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AC 18, touch 14, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +3 Dex, +1 size)
hp 24 (3d8+6)
Fort +3, Ref +6, Will +4 (+1 trait bonus vs. mind-affecting effects)
Defensive Abilities trap sense +1; Resist issian
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee mwk rapier +7 (1d4+1/18-20) or
. . mwk tailblade +7 (1d2+1)
Special Attacks swarming
Investigator (Empiricist) Extracts Prepared (CL 3rd; concentration +6)
. . 1st—adhesive spittle[ACG] (DC 14), blurred movement[ACG], reduce person (DC 14), shield
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Statistics
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Str 12, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 17, Wis 12, Cha 12
Base Atk +2; CMB +2; CMD 15
Feats Focused Inspiration[ACG], Weapon Finesse
Traits careful combatant, issian, pragmatic activator
Skills Acrobatics +6 (+2 to jump), Bluff +1 (-1 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Climb +4, Diplomacy +1 (+3 to gather information (You can use your Intelligence Modifier instead of Charisma), -1 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Disable Device +11, Disguise +1 (-1 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Escape Artist +6, Fly +5, Intimidate +1 (-1 for 24 hours when you fail an opposed Charisma based check), Knowledge (arcana) +9, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +9, Knowledge (engineering) +8, Knowledge (geography) +7, Knowledge (history) +7, Knowledge (local) +9, Knowledge (nature) +7, Knowledge (nobility) +8, Knowledge (planes) +7, Knowledge (religion) +7, Perception +11, Sense Motive +7, Spellcraft +7, Stealth +12, Use Magic Device +11; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, +2 Use Magic Device
Languages Aklo, Common, Goblin, Undercommon
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +3), ceaseless observation, hero points, inspiration (4/day), investigator talent (trap spotter), keen recollection, rodent empathy, trapfinding +1, vain
Other Gear mwk chain shirt, mwk rapier, mwk tailblade[ARG], investigator starting formula book, masterwork thieves' tools
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Special Abilities
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Alchemy +3 (Su) +3 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Ceaseless Observation (Ex) Use INT instead of CHA for gather information (+2)
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Focused Inspiration (Stealth, Disable Device) Roll 2d8 (or 2d10 if normally rolling d8) when adding inspiration to selected skills.
Hero Points Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
Inspiration (+1d6, 4/day) (Ex) Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Keen Recollection At 3rd level, an investigator can attempt all Knowledge skill checks untrained.
Rodent Empathy Ratfolk gain a +4 racial bonus on Handle Animal checks made to influence rodents.
Swarming (Ex) Can share a square with another with swarming, if both att the same foe, he is flanked.
Trap Sense +1 (Ex) +1 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Trap Spotter (Ex) Whenever you come within 10' of a trap, the GM secretly rolls for you to find it.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
Vain -2 to Cha checks for 24h after failing an opposed Cha check


Oki doki.

Pragmatic Activator: You don't need it. Empiricist gets INT to UMD automatically (re-read Ceaseless Observation).

Extracts: I'd probably pick some different ones (Heighten Awareness is amazing), but the main thing I wanted to say is that you have "concentration +6" written. I'm assuming you just put this into hero-lab or something, but extracts don't require concentration checks.

Focused Inspiration: It's not bad, but 1d8 vs 1d6 isn't that much of a difference (+1 on average), and you're only getting that up to 4 times per day, ans even then that's only if you spend your inspiration on nothing else. Why not take EXTRA INVESTIGATOR TALENT: UNDERWORLD INSPIRATION instead? You won't get that d8 for Inspiration, but you'll get to roll Inspiration a lot more often.

Combat Focus: You said you wanted to be halfway decent in combat. Next level you'll get Studied Combat and Studied Strike. Studied Combat is amazing, making you one of the most accurate classes in the game. With your INT it should last long enough to down each enemy. Studied Strike can be used for some burst damage, and for some debuffs if you want to spend a talent or two on it. Also at level 5 you should take the QUICK STUDY talent, it'll make combat way easier for you. These alone will make you passable, but if you really want more you could go for DEX-to-damage. You're probably looking at FENCING GRACE (and Weapon Focus). If you want to work toward this you could take Weapon Focus as your 3rd level feat so that you can take Fencing Grace at level 5, but I don't know that you need it. Since we're talking about Fencing Grace ...

Swashbuckler: A fairly common variant on the Investigator is the "Swashtigator". Essentially you take one level of SWASHBUCKLER (usually the INSPIRED BLADE archetype), and then the rest in Investigator (usually Empiricist). Inspired Blade gets you Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus at level 1, so you can take Fencing Grace and have DEX-to-damage right from level 1. This helps offset the waiting time for Investigators to get good at combat (you're waiting till level 4 really). Inspired Blade also keys of INT instead of CHA which is good for Investigators, and gives you some nice defensive (parry) and offensive (riposte) abilities. Finally, since the Rapier is an Investigator weapon it can benefit from the INSPIRED weapon property later on (which you'll want). None of this is to say that you NEED a level in Inspired Blade, but it's an option - a strong option at that (although considering how long I've spent writing this I would be surprised if someone else hasn't already posted saying you NEED this - just take it for what it is and decide if it's for you). One final caveat about the Inspired Blade dip: it only gives you Weapon Finess with the Rapier, so you wouldn't get DEX to hit with the Tail-Blade (for example) unless you took another feat.


You're building Miles Vorkosigan and not going for an intelligent Diplomancer build? I'm (mock) disappointed!

I'd second MrCharisma's suggestion for going with Inspired Blade if you want to be combat effective NOW. Note that with your Reduced Person extract, you'll be Tiny and thus provoke an attack of opportunity when you try to attack a Small or larger creature in melee. Not great...additionally, I'd swap the Swarming racial trait for Cornered Fury unless there's another ratfolk in the party. Unnerve instead of Rodent Empathy could also make a great swap since there are naturally animals in the wild.

Silver Crusade

Your first Investigator Talent should be Alchemist Discovery: Mutagen.

For a ratfolk, I recommend the Swashtigator mentioned by MrCharisma.

For stats, I suggest (20 point buy):
Str 8 Dex 18, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 8

You can take points away from Wis and Cha, and raise Int by one if you want. But make no mistake: Dex is your prime stat.

Traits: Student of Philosophy, one other.
Starting Feat: Fencing Grace


Ok I should clarify something. I was NOT recommending the Swashbuckler dip, I was simply pointing it out, and explaining why it COULD be a worthwhile dip. If you want to be combat focused then it's a great dip, but since the OP only wants to be "halfway decent" in combat I don't think it's necessary. I mentioned it because I knew every other person on here would say it's a must have.

If you want more combat prowess, take a Swashbuckler dip.

If you want to be better at skills, don't.

(If you don't take the dip then your combat prowess should start to show itself next level - level 4 - when you get Studied Combat.)

Same goes for Mutagen really, if you want to be a combat beast take it, but otherwise it's "meh".

And same goes for your primary stat while you're at it. If you want to be better at combat, your highest stat should he DEX, but if you want to play the skill-monkey you should prioritize INT.

Investigators automatically become the best at skills with really no effort. With the right choices you could ALSO be a decent buffer (eg. Infusion/Effortless-Aid), de-buffer (eg. Sickening-Offensive/any studied strike talent) or damage dealer (see above).

Pick what you want your character to do and build accordingly.


JiaYou wrote:
You're building Miles Vorkosigan and not going for an intelligent Diplomancer build? I'm (mock) disappointed! ...

I was actually going to do that, but several others in the group are already aiming at the diplomat role and I don't want to step on their toes.

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.
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The stats are an array build for this campaign.

I like the swashbuckler level and fencing grace. Though maybe I should plan on an agile weapon rather instead to free up a feat. I will consider.

Not sure about the mutagen. It doesn't really fit my mental construct of the PC's personality.

I like sickening offensive. Never noticed that before.

Thanks folks.


I think Swashbuckler is interesting too because The Warrior's Apprentice is just an escalation of bat-s*** recklessness. Yeah even without Dex-to-damage Inspired Blade is still great because of the significant boost to panache points.

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