Could I get a secondary or subsequent pair of eyes to help me gauge the RP of some homebrew races I'm attempting to price up?
I am moving over PF's race point system (priorly, I was using one for 3.5 by JabbaTheWhat for my homebrew campaign world. Naturally, as I made these races under 3.5, they worked on 3.5's plus for minus system predomnantly, and what I did following those rules and tweaking doesn't fit at all with PF's. For those races with no or only +2/-2 it's easy enough to add another bonus, but with the more extensive mods, well, I managed to completely straddle PF's ability score stuff, to the point that even combining options didn't give me anything...!) I don't want to take anything away or modify the races, just essentially try and give them a rough price-up in RP for future additions.
I've made educated extrapolations, thus far, but for the sake of getting my eye in, a second opinion would be nice. The stuff in bold especially is what I'm looking for a second opinion on (everything else was easy enough to approximate from existing stuff, for as close as it needs to be for my purposes).
(Yes, Jump and Search are still skills in my rules, just pretend like their other skills or something!)
(World calls' em orc-kin, as opposed to goblinoid, but essentially, orcs, goblins, hobgoblins and kobolds are all goblinoid, genetically engineered (though they don't call it that) by the Dark Lord to oppose the main four races; goblins, the trackers, are nominally the equivilent to dwarves)
Species Traits:
• Humanoid (Orc-kin) type and subtype
• +2 to any ability score [0]
• Base Speed 30’ [0]
• Low-Light Vision [1]
• +4 racial to listen Perception Checks: Goblins have large and sensitive ears. [4]
• +4 racial to Stealth: Goblins make almost no noise when they move. [4]
• Scent (Ex): As the feat: Goblins a superb sense of smell. [4]
• +4 to Fortitude saves made to resist nonlethal damage caused by exposure to high temperatures in very hot or severe heat conditions (i.e. those below 140ºF) [2]
13RP; Level Adjustment +0
Gremlin
(Dreemaenhyll gremlin, which in flavour is something like the Golarion goblins, only turned up to 11 (and a little more like the Ones Out Of The Movies).)
Species Traits:
• Outsider (Chaotic, Evil, Native) type and subtype [3]
• Str -2, Dex +2, Con -2, Int +2, Wis -4, Cha +2; Gremlins are small, fragile, but have sharp minds and a strong sense of independence, matched only by their utter inability to think things through. [0?]
• Tiny size: +2 AC, +2 on attack rolls, +8 on Stealth, -2 on CMB, lifting and carrying capacity limits half those of Medium creatures. [4]
• Reach 5 feet. Gremlins are right on the border of Small and Tiny creatures, and so are just big enough and just agile enough to have non zero reach [1?]
• Base Speed 30’ Gremlins are extemely fast for their size. [0]
• Low-Light Vision [1]
• Trapfinding, +2 racial bonus to all Craft skills and Disable Device. Gremlins are naturally inclinded to mechanical devices and creativity in general, thanks to their peculiar mind-set and long and nimble fingers. [4?+1+3]
• Primary Natural Weapon: Bite (D4, plus the Gremlin’s Strength bonus). [2]
• Chaotic Stupid (Ex): If a Gremlin attempts an ability or skill check and fails by five or more points, it must make a DC 10 Wisdom check or do something so fundementally stupid it deals itself D6 damage. This applies only to checks it initiates itself (i.e not to those made in reaction to another creature’s action)
It also deals this damage to itself any time it rolls on natural 1 on any attack roll, ability check or skill check. (This stacks with the damage if it also fails a check by 5 or more points.) [-3?]
16 RP
Hobgoblin
(Genetically engineered by the Dark Lord to be Good At Archery and be the Elf equivilent)
Species Traits:
• Humanoid (Orc-kin) type and subtype
• +2 to any ability score [0]
• Base Speed 30’ [0]
• Low-Light Vision [1]
• +4 racial to spot Perception Checks: Hobgoblins have superb visual acuity. [4]
• Sharp-Shooting as a bonus Feat. [4?]
• Accuracy (Ex): Reduce sight-based concealment miss chances by 10% (except for Total Concealment) for melee or ranged attacks. +1 competence bonus to all ranged attacks. Hobgoblins have preternatural hand-eye co-ordination and accuracy bred into them. [4?]
• +2 racial to Sleight of Hand: Hobgoblins have excellent manual dexterity. [2]
16 RP; Level Adjustment +0
Intulo
(Evil!Vulcan lizardmen)
Species Traits:
• Humanoid (Reptilian) type and subtype
• +2 Int, +2 Wis, -4 Cha: Intulo are cold and calculating, but their lack of emotion renders them passionless. [0]
• Base Speed 30’ [0]
• Bite: treat this as an unarmed (rather than natural weapon) attack (in that it provokes an attack of opputunity), which deals D4 lethal damage plus the Intulo’s Str modifier. [1]
• Stability: The Intulo’s tail makes them very stable. +4 on ability checks made to resist bull rushes or trips when standing on the ground or climbing (but not when riding, swimming or flying etc.) [1]
• +2 bonus to Acrobatics, Climb and Swim checks; the tail adds to balance and aids both swimming and climbing. [2+2+2]
• +2 Natural Armour: Intulo have a tough, scaly hide. [3]
• +2 to all Will saves: Intulo are very hard to mentally affect. [1]
12RP; Level Adjustment +0
Kobold (Another genetically modified race, because the Dark Lord wanted one to opposed halflings...)
Species Traits:
• Humanoid (Orc-kin) type and subtype
• +2 to any ability score [0]
• Small size: +1 AC, +1 on attack rolls, +4 on Stealth, -1 on CMB, lifting and carrying capacity limits three-quarters as those of Medium creatures. [0]
• Powerful Build: Whenever a Kobold is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check or combat manoeuvre, the Kobold is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A Kobold is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as Improved Grab or Swallow Whole) can affect him. A Kobold can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the Kobold’s actual size category but not with effects that change the Kobold’s effective size. [4?]
• Base Speed 20’ [-1]
• Low-Light Vision: Kobolds have excellent eyes. [1]
• +2 racial bonus to Acrobatics, Jump, Perception and Stealth. Kobolds move with speed quietly and have superior senses. [2+2+2+2]
13 RP ;Level Adjustment +0
Orc
(Think Uruk Hai, made to be the opposite to humans...)
Species Traits:
• Humanoid (Orc-kin) type and subtype
• +2 Str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Cha: Orcs are strong and heavily built but their size makes them less agile than a human, and they are bred to be inherently subservient to their masters. [0]
• Base Speed 30’ [0]
• Endurance as a bonus feat: Orcs can run for hours without tiring. [2]
• Low-Light Vision: Orcs see well in gloomy conditions. [1]
• +1 Natural Armour: Orcs have thick skin. [2]
• +2 to saves verses poisons [2]
• +4 to saves verses non-magical diseases: Orcs have hardy metabolisms that make it difficult to poison them, and the squalid conditions they live in provide them with a resistance to disease; those that don’t are usually dead! [2]
• +4 racial bonus to Intimidate: Orcs are large and fearsome creatures who have a menacing presence that comes from more than their size; they were designed to be intimidating. [4]
RP 14; Level Adjustment +0
Orc, Lesser
(Bred for strength over anything else, highly unlikely to be a PC race, included more for completeness)
Species Traits:
• Humanoid (Orc-kin) type and subtype
• +6 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con, -4 Int, -4 Wis -4 Cha: Lesser Orcs are huge, hulking brutes whose physical strength is matched only by their nearly absent minds. [0]
• Base Speed 30’ [0]
• Endurance as a bonus feat: Orcs can run for hours without tiring. [2]
• Low-Light Vision: Orcs see well in gloomy conditions. [1]
• +1 Natural Armour: Orcs have thick skin. [2]
• +2 to saves verses poisons [2]
• +4 to saves verses non-magical diseases: Orcs have hardy metabolisms that make it difficult to poison them, and the squalid conditions they live in provide them with a resistance to disease; those that don’t are usually dead! [2]
• +4 racial bonus to Intimidate: Orcs are large and fearsome creatures who are used to bullying others. [2]
RP 11; Level Adjustment +0
Vodyanoi
(Jungle frog-men)
Species Traits:
• Humanoid (Amphibious, Anorid) type and subtype
• +2 Dex, +2 Wis?, -2 Con. Vodyanoi are agile and savvy, but as ampibians, somewhat fragile. [0] (If anyone wants to argue me Charisma instead of Wis (the mental bonus is new)...)
• Base Speed 30’ Swim 30’ [2]
• +8 racial bonus to swim and may always take 10 on swim checks
• +2 racial bonus on Climb checks; Vodyanoi are adapted for an arboreal life-style. [1]
• +4 racial bonus to Jump checks; Vodyanoi have powerful legs. [4]
• Male Vodyanoi have a -2 penalty to Stealth due to their vivid colouration. They also gain a +4 racial bonus to Perfrom (sing) and (Wind Instrument) checks. Female Vodyanoi only gain a +2 bonus, due to their smaller sacs, but due to their duller colouring, no penalty on Stealth checks. [-2+4; 2]
• +1 racial bonus on Fortitude and Will saves verses spells and effects with the Sonic descriptor; Vodyanoi are somewhat resist to loud noises, because of own. [2]
• Far Breath (Ex): Vodyanoi gain Far Shot for any exhaled weapons (e.g. Blowpipes or blowguns) or any other similar weapons, do to their air sacs. (This does not apply to any breath weapons.) [2]
• Poison Skin (Ex): Any creature that bites a Vodyanoi muts make a Fortitude save (DC equal to 5+ ½ the Vodyanoi’s HD, plus it’s Constituion modifier) or be poisoned, taking D4 Constitution damage (there is no terminal phase). If Vodyanoi flesh is actually injested (or it is swallowed whole), add 5 to the DC, and the creature takes 2D6/2D6 Constution damage. Externally, or on the Vodyanoi’s death, the poison potency only lasts 1 day/ per point of Constution modifier (minimum 1 day). The poison is destroyed by roasting. A Vodyanoi killed by exposure to electricity, fire, heat, light, magma or steam damage is no longer poisonous. [5]
In other news, the clear favouritism in the DM for the Evil side clearly notable by all the evil races being at least Advanced (while dwarves in particular have had their racial traits reduced and moved over to Culture and some gone altogether; maybe I ought to give them ssome more stuff; sadly, I have always been on the elf side of the dwarf/elf divide...!) Though on the other hand, the Dark Lands have small RP cultures, so...!)
RP is a joke and a bad measure of things. That being said
-Goblin has a +4 to perception, the best skill in the game. That's really good, and should be to only sound based perception checks.
-Gremlin stats are broken and being a tiny creature without tiny creature problems is a huge buff. Chaotic Stupid is just stupid and doesn't begin to balance it out.
-Hobgoblin is a ranged characters wet dream. Again with perception bonuses and way too much going on.
-A negative to charisma isn't exactly a negative. You also have two mental stats, which generally races add one mental and one physical. Intulo have way too much with the Natural Armor and Will Save (the most important save).
I'm just going to stop here. These races are way above the power curve. If every other race is given a bonus fine, but these are better than any other race in the core + featured races.
(Edit: Darn, sorry, there IS a homebrew forum here which would probbaly be better for this (can't see for looking, apparently), flagged it myself to see if the mods might shunt it over.)
RP is a joke and a bad measure of things. That being said
If you have a better one, I'm happy to be directed to it; the previous attempt was a fan-created one after all.
-Goblin has a +4 to perception, the best skill in the game. That's really good, and should be to only sound based perception checks.It is, it's only to "listen Perception checks". (After the switch over from 3.5, I simply changed Listen and Spot bonuses to listern Perception and spot Perception.
-Gremlin stats are broken
Up, down, what? Yes, I'm aware it doesn't conform to what PF decided was the way it was going to do racial stat bonuses. (If it did, I wouldn't have felt it necessary to make the thread.)
and being a tiny creature without tiny creature problems is a huge buff.
Okay, so, like, how much of a buff?
Chaotic Stupid is just stupid and doesn't begin to balance it out.
It was never intended to balance it out, I just wanted gremlins to have it, because, like, among other things, the movie upon which I drew some of the flavour (Golarion goblins turned up to 11 being the other half). (Also, partly, it is one reason the little sods haven't overrun the planet, because they breed like germs...)
I probably should have noted that I have never intended Gremlins to be PC races (I neglected to mention it), like, ever - but I do generate all PCs and NPCs under the same rules.
(In practise, Gremlins have actually seen the most heavy use in actual play, I think, out of all the the following, and they have summarily failed to wipe the PCs...!)
-Hobgoblin is a ranged characters wet dream.
I mean, yeah... That was sort of the Dark Lord's whole point.
(To answer the tactit question of "why doesn't everyone who wants to play a ranged character pick Hobgoblin?," the answer would be a simple "because you can only play a Hobgoblin if you're playing Evil parties, but if you are, go ahead!")
-A negative to charisma isn't exactly a negative.
I feel the Cha 4 Intulo ranger in the Dark Lord's dirty covert ops party might feel he would disagree...
You also have two mental stats, which generally races add one mental and one physical.
PF elected to take that approach yes, which I'm not sold on, (I mean literally case in point here where that restriction simply does not gel with the assigned flavour), but, again, what I'm interested in is making a reasonable attempt to price it, given that it exists.
Intulo have way too much with the Natural Armor and Will Save (the most important save).
There is perhaps an arguement that they ought to get Iron Will as a bonus feat at level 1 instead of a +2 Will save, granted (it would, at least, not stack, and would shunt the RP up by +3), but on the other hand, dwarves get +2 to ALL saves against the two single most common save-causing effects (spells and poisons), which was, I think, what I looked at when I wrote it years ago, and when I made that RP estimation the other day.
I'm just going to stop here. These races are way above the power curve. If every other race is given a bonus fine, but these are better than any other race in the core + featured races.
Which is why this entire exercise exists, so that, in making a plausible estimate of "how much," so, as necessary, I can make (upwards) adjustments to... Actually, to humans, elves, dwarves and halflings, which are currently the only other existant races on said homebrew currently existant.
(Since the world's bestiary was, by design "toss out entire 3.5 MM and re-image from mythological (slash-Tolkien-bias) scratch.")
(Dare I mention that, aping my beloved Rolemaster, I gave elves and most fey races a +8 bonust verses nonmagical diseases? (RM (a D100 system) gave them a flat +100...))