Clarification on Monk stances and natural weapons

[Michael Grate]

I'm building a Lizardfolk Monk. After reading through the feats available, I saw that the Monk can get Brawling Focus in order to get the Critical Specialization for all Unarmed strikes while Lizardfolk gets access to a heritage feat called Iruxi Unarmed Cunning which does the same but just for Lizardfolk natural weapons. I know I can use any unarmed attack for the purpose of Flurry of Blows but I'm wondering how this interacts with stances.

To clarify, I'm not looking to replace or change the actual attack of the stance. The main thing I'm asking is if I have to use fists specifically or if, for the purpose of getting critical specialization, I can say I'm using my claws for the stance attack.

My second question is just about Natural attacks, specifically the Tail Whip attack (though Sharp Fangs could work too). Because this attack doesn't use the hands, can I use this while my hands are full? I'd assume so because it's also an unarmed attack but because it's not a fist it doesn't follow standard free-hand rules.

[Castilliano]

While you're in a Stance, unless the Stance limits you to one type of attack like Crane, you can use any attacks you want. Any, though some special attacks require certain traits, mainly unarmed for Monks.

And any unarmed attack counts as an unarmed attack, whether fist, claw, or tentacle. In PF2, there is no "natural attack" classification like in PF1. Those all fall under unarmed (& brawling too, so far), and Monk attacks requiring unarmed attacks work fine with them. So expect some Monk-sters.

These other attacks don't become Stance attacks (except that one you gained by entering that Stance). Some Stance attacks are specific parts of the body, but mechanically that's insignificant unless something specifically effects that portion of your body. For your attacks, like Stunning Fist or Flying Kick, you do not need a fist nor a kick.

Of course you can bite or tail swipe w/o a hand free.

Also of note, unarmed attacks are not weapons (unlike Monk attacks in PF1) so many Fighter feats (et al) don't work w/ them.

[Michael Grate]

Castilliano wrote:

While you're in a Stance, unless the Stance limits you to one type of attack like Crane, you can use any attacks you want. Any, though some special attacks require certain traits, mainly unarmed for Monks.

And any unarmed attack counts as an unarmed attack, whether fist, claw, or tentacle. In PF2, there is no "natural attack" classification like in PF1. Those all fall under unarmed (& brawling too, so far), and Monk attacks requiring unarmed attacks work fine with them. So expect some Monk-sters.

These other attacks don't become Stance attacks (except that one you gained by entering that Stance). Some Stance attacks are specific parts of the body, but mechanically that's insignificant unless something specifically effects that portion of your body. For your attacks, like Stunning Fist or Flying Kick, you do not need a fist nor a kick.

Of course you can bite or tail swipe w/o a hand free.

Also of note, unarmed attacks are not weapons (unlike Monk attacks in PF1) so many Fighter feats (et al) don't work w/ them.

Based on what you're saying, it doesn't really matter what I'm using for the stance because it's effectively a new "weapon" being used (IE. there's the fist, the claw and the Stance attacks which are each distinct, unarmed attacks and why they can all be used by Flurry of Blows and each have their own, distinct traits and damage dice).

I guess my final question would be if it's possible to use the Stance attack if both hands are full and I had a tail or bite option as well (maybe because I'm using the medical tools and we get ambushed or something). I would assume that without those it's not (though the RP would be funny, "Don't worry guys, even though my hands are full I can still hit them with my ethereal Tiger Stance limbs") but because I can still make unarmed strikes with my hands full using another attack option like the tail, it seems reasonable that this would be possible in the same way with stances.

[Castilliano]

It depends on the Stance attack (and GM interpretation).
If the attack explicitly uses your hands (which I think Tiger does) then you couldn't use it if your hands were occupied. Much like I think you couldn't a claw in that case either.
But I could see exceptions depending on what you were carrying and what type of attack it is, though I wouldn't count on any of that.

Just because you can make a different unarmed attack doesn't mean all your unarmed attacks are available. If somebody stuck a muzzle on your Lizardfolk, him being able to punch certainly wouldn't be an argument that he can therefore bite too.
I don't see this as a matter of balance, but simply consequences of the situation.