Grease spell: when to roll Reflex saves?

[Saros Palanthios]

The Grease spell description reads:

Quote:

All solid ground in the area is covered with

grease. Each creature standing on the greasy surface
must succeed at a Reflex save or an Acrobatics check
against your spell DC or fall prone. Creatures using
an action to move onto the greasy surface during the
spell’s duration must attempt either a Reflex save or an
Acrobatics check to Balance. A creature that Steps or
Crawls doesn’t have to attempt a check or save.

If I cast Grease on a square where a creature is standing, when does the creature have to make the Reflex save/Acrobatics check or fall prone? As soon as I cast the spell? On the creature's turn? Both?

Furthermore, say a creature starts its turn Prone in a Greased square. It uses an action to Stand. It's now "standing on the greasy surface"-- does it therefore have to make a Reflex save/Acrobatics check or fall prone again?

[thenobledrake]

The creature(s) standing in the area you cast the grease on save or fall prone when you cast it. They don't re-save automatically once their turn starts.

The language "to move onto" is vague enough to include standing up, but I think the intent might not be to have that included. If you're worried that it's unbalanced (forgive the pun) for actions spent standing up to be potentially wasted, have the creature crawl out of the area of the grease spell before standing.

[Saros Palanthios]

thenobledrake wrote:

The creature(s) standing in the area you cast the grease on save or fall prone when you cast it. They don't re-save automatically once their turn starts.

That's how the 1e version of Grease worked, sure. The 2e version lacks that language about only saving when the spell is first cast. I'm wondering if that's intentional or not.

[Orithilaen]

Saros Palanthios wrote:

That's how the 1e version of Grease worked, sure. The 2e version lacks that language about only saving when the spell is first cast. I'm wondering if that's intentional or not.

Since it doesn't call out a specific time for creatures to make the save (it doesn't say "Each turn..."), I would interpret it to only require a save when first cast, which seems like a reasonable default since that's how most spells work. It would also make a pretty good spell even better if it could repeatedly force saves like that.

[Castilliano]

Orithilaen wrote:

Saros Palanthios wrote:

That's how the 1e version of Grease worked, sure. The 2e version lacks that language about only saving when the spell is first cast. I'm wondering if that's intentional or not.

Since it doesn't call out a specific time for creatures to make the save (it doesn't say "Each turn..."), I would interpret it to only require a save when first cast, which seems like a reasonable default since that's how most spells work. It would also make a pretty good spell even better if it could repeatedly force saves like that.

Yes. The description is giving the initial effect on those standing in the area. Then it gives the continuing effect "during the spell's duration". Even though it's the same effect, its trigger is different: for those moving "onto the greasy surface".

Oddly, this could be read as the greasy surface being one thing that's 4 squares large w/ somebody already on it able to move fine, though I wouldn't interpret it that way.

If read as them rolling every time they meet the conditions of standing inside and also moving inside, they'd have to roll way too many times for a low-level spell. Pretty much at the end of every action unless already prone.