Polymorph and Unarmed attack

[TheGuccett]

Hi all,

my question is about a statement that appears in all polymorph spells:

"These attacks are Strength based (for the purpose of the enfeebled condition, for example). If your unarmed attack bonus is higher, you can use it instead"

Does this mean you can use you DEX bonus to calculate you unarmed attack?

I'm thinking to play a rogue, but my master told me the party will probably fight lots of creature resistent/immune to precision damage. So I'm thinking to take the archetype to mix druid spells and companion to be able to polymorph myself and try to keep up with combat against such creatures.

Thanks in Advance!

[Vlorax]

Right before the text you quoted it will give an attack modifier, like for Dragon Form

"Your attack modifier is +22, and your damage bonus is +6. These attacks are Strength based (for the purpose of the enfeebled condition, for example). If your unarmed attack modifier is higher, you can use it instead."

What this means is if you have an unarmed attack modifier greater than +22 you can use that instead. DEX has nothing to do with it.

[TheGuccett]

Vlorax wrote:

Right before the text you quoted it will give an attack modifier, like for Dragon Form

"Your attack modifier is +22, and your damage bonus is +6. These attacks are Strength based (for the purpose of the enfeebled condition, for example). If your unarmed attack modifier is higher, you can use it instead."

What this means is if you have an unarmed attack modifier greater than +22 you can use that instead. DEX has nothing to do with it.

Unarmed attack can use DEX mod instead of STR due to the Finesse trait, that's the point.

[thenobledrake]

While unarmed attacks can use Dex instead of Strength, polymorph spells tell you which your attack is based on for the purposes of conditions.

If your polymorph effect says "these attacks are strength based" and your unarmed attack modifier is higher and dex-based - you use your modifier, but the attack is still strength-based for purposes of conditions.

[Castilliano]

Yes, you could, that's fine. But without an item bonus, that's unlikely to happen, or you're using a spell too weak to be much use.

That said, Rogue works okay w/o Sneak Attack.
Yes, that's their martial perk so they aren't as solid as usual, but they still dominate with skills.

Do not take MCD Druid for a companion or polymorph spells.
The companion will struggle and die often (wasting your actions & feats in the process). Polymorph spells take investment to get to the okay level that a Rogue w/o Sneak Attack already has, so if you want to go this route, be a Druid. And boost your Con.

For extra damage, a Ruffian Rogue could dip Barbarian for Rage or Fighter for a better weapon (though an Ancestry feat might be better for that). Use a Sneak Attack weapon when able, yet have the bigger weapon handy for when you can't. "Can't use my longspear to Sneak Attack you? Guess I'll just use my greataxe!"

A Thief Rogue, since they ignore Str, can get high Con & Wis too, making them pretty tough. If that's not enough, you could go with 16 Wis and go all out w/ MCD Cleric or Druid for attack cantrips (perhaps when your Sneak Attack doesn't work) or even an emergency AoE or Heal which can tilt a combat.