We just started playing Starfinder and I am GMing it. We are playing Firestarters.
Multiple PC's are trained in the Medicine Skill. They tried using it multiple times on the same character.
What they did was that they only had each PC use the skill on that particular character one time, but both used the skill on the PC. The idea was that though only one of them could use the skill on the character per PC, two different PC's were under a different idea.
I ruled that a character could ONLY benefit from the Medicine skill once per day unless in a lab. Thus, even if two different PC's used the Medicine skill, it still fell under the rule that the character could only benefit from it's usage once. This rule wasn't in application to singular PC's but the skill in general.
Did I rule this correctly?
That is correct.
A creature can receive this treatment only once every 24-hour period, unless it is delivered in a medical lab.
So if you have access to a medical lab you can use Treat deadly wounds twice a day. Now if you have the Surgeon Expertise talent you can do this a third time a day. But it requires a medical bay increase DC by and takes 1 hour.
If you can justify the cost then using medical expert you can then use a med patch or spray flesh to tread deadly wounds as a full round action. The only benefit to this is if you need to do this in the middle of combat. Doesn't give more uses.
Don't forget if you beat the DC by 5 or more you add your Intelligence.
I wish Tread Deadly wounds was more like 2E and could do it more often. I really would like to see the Biohacker get some abilities that can play off this.
Thank you.
The 2E Medicine looks a little bit strong to me (Result hp / hour), but I think moving to 1/hr with the amount of SF (lvl (+Int if DC +5)) sound ok. But then the question would do you get as benefit from the the Med Lab?
Good to know, never really looked into PF2, myself. :)
...If you have
ranks in Medicine, a dose of sprayflesh allows you to attempt
a check to treat deadly wounds on a creature that has already
received its limit of treat deadly wound benefits for the day.
If you succeed at a DC 25 Medicine check, the next time such
a creature rests for 10 minutes and spends a Resolve Point to
regain Stamina Points, it can instead gain the benefit of your
Medicine check to treat deadly wounds.
The way I run my campaign, exploiting the part I've bolded above, is that in the hands of a person with medical training, you can keep using sprayflesh to treat deadly wounds as long as the Resolve Points of the recipient holds out. You might argue that I'm breaking the spirit of the rules, but by the way they're written I don't think I am. There is the limit of Resolve Points, which you should use cautiously, and the cost of sprayflesh, which is a bit pricey for lower level characters, so I don't think my interpretation breaks anything badly.
"I've got my case of Sprayflesh here. You may look like the Michelin Man when I'm done, but by God I'm going to stop that bleeding!"
Also keep in mind with 2E the dependency on magical healing won't be there like 1E. So there needs to be a way to help.
...If you have
ranks in Medicine, a dose of sprayflesh allows you to attempt
a check to treat deadly wounds on a creature that has already
received its limit of treat deadly wound benefits for the day.
If you succeed at a DC 25 Medicine check, the next time such
a creature rests for 10 minutes and spends a Resolve Point to
regain Stamina Points, it can instead gain the benefit of your
Medicine check to treat deadly wounds.The way I run my campaign, exploiting the part I've bolded above, is that in the hands of a person with medical training, you can keep using sprayflesh to treat deadly wounds as long as the Resolve Points of the recipient holds out. You might argue that I'm breaking the spirit of the rules, but by the way they're written I don't think I am. There is the limit of Resolve Points, which you should use cautiously, and the cost of sprayflesh, which is a bit pricey for lower level characters, so I don't think my interpretation breaks anything badly.
"I've got my case of Sprayflesh here. You may look like the Michelin Man when I'm done, but by God I'm going to stop that bleeding!"
After reading and rereading this I feel that works. Check this out:
1. Do you have ranks in medicine?~ yes: continue
~ no: exit
2. Do you have sprayflesh?
~ yes: continue
~ no: exit
3. Has the creature you are attempting to use received its limit of treat deadly wounds (TDW)?
~ yes: continue
~ no: exit
4. Did you succeed at a DC 25 Medicine check?
~ yes: next time you rest for 10 minus and spend resolve to regain stamina gain hp = treat deadly wounds
~ no: exit
Sprayflesh is wasted money in my view.
Sprayflesh
Item Level 5 Price 440 credits
Requires a Medicine Check and you can choose to get your level hp instead of stamina the next time you rest for 10 min and spent one RP.
Serum of Haling
MK I: Item Level 1 Price 50
MK II: Item Level 5 Price 425
You get 1d8 / 3d8 hp instantly, no check, no rest & no RP needed
So why should I use the worst option to regenerate hp?
I think this a basic problem with Starfinder, the technological solution are most times more expensive and less effective then the magic ones.
I think a solution would be to reduce the price of the sprayflesh dramatically (especially since it already has three drawbacks (check, rest, RP spent).
Sprayflesh is wasted money in my view.
Sprayflesh
Item Level 5 Price 440 credits
Requires a Medicine Check and you can choose to get your level hp instead of stamina the next time you rest for 10 min and spent one RP.Serum of Haling
MK I: Item Level 1 Price 50
MK II: Item Level 5 Price 425You get 1d8 / 3d8 hp instantly, no check, no rest & no RP needed
So why should I use the worst option to regenerate hp?
I think this a basic problem with Starfinder, the technological solution are most times more expensive and less effective then the magic ones.
I think a solution would be to reduce the price of the sprayflesh dramatically (especially since it already has three drawbacks (check, rest, RP spent).
You missed the whole point. Using this with medical expert. At higher levels This is better than MK I healing serum, Yes MK II is still better but this requires you to pull it out and drink it. Spayflesh would allow me just to run up with it then perform the check next round. This allows your healers or non combatants to help the combatants by performing TDW in combat and past the max limit. If you beat the DC by 5 or more you add your INT. So INT based characters this is a nice little boost.
Let's assume a mid level character (Level 9) with INT +6 and the medical expert feat, so you are able to grant a character lvl +6 hp.
Sprayflesh:
1. You have to use a full action (instead of 1 minute thanks to the feat)
2. You have to pass a DC 25 (30) medicine check
3. Your target only only get 9 (15) hp when
a) he does a 10 min rest
b) spent a Resolve Point
c) forgo his stamina regeneration
Serum of Healing MK II:
1. You can draw and apply it within a full action too
2. you don't have to pass any check
3. you get 3 to 24 hp (average 13,5) instantly
If you put your serums of healing into small Syringe, you can even apply them to your friends.
(If you have a Auto Injector you can heal yourself even in a move-action.)
I don't really see the benefit of Sprayflesh here, it takes more time, has the chance of failing, costs more and is less flexible.
...
So why should I use the worst option to regenerate hp?
I think this a basic problem with Starfinder, the technological solution are most times more expensive and less effective then the magic ones.
I think a solution would be to reduce the price of the sprayflesh dramatically (especially since it already has three drawbacks (check, rest, RP spent).
I agree, overall, magic is much more powerful at healing in Starfinder than technology. Sprayflesh does at least give you a way to boost healing if you are using Starfinder rules to play in a non-magical Sci-Fi universe.
One of the biggest differences I've noticed is that the Remove Affliction spell is far better for a poisoned or diseased character than the medical skill tasks of Treat Disease or Treat Drugs or Poison, which only give a +4 to the character making fortitude saves. Technology doesn't come close until you buy a Regeneration Table, which ironically describes it's effects as if you went to a spellcaster:
...A living creature using a regeneration table is affected as if a 6th-level mystic cure spell as well as the remove affliction and restoration spells were cast on it. A dead creature is affected as if raise dead were cast on it. A regeneration table has an effective caster level of 20th.
Let's assume a mid level character (Level 9) with INT +6 and the medical expert feat, so you are able to grant a character lvl +6 hp.
Sprayflesh:
1. You have to use a full action (instead of 1 minute thanks to the feat)
2. You have to pass a DC 25 (30) medicine check
3. Your target only only get 9 (15) hp when
a) he does a 10 min rest
b) spent a Resolve Point
c) forgo his stamina regenerationSerum of Healing MK II:
1. You can draw and apply it within a full action too
2. you don't have to pass any check
3. you get 3 to 24 hp (average 13,5) instantlyIf you put your serums of healing into small Syringe, you can even apply them to your friends.
(If you have a Auto Injector you can heal yourself even in a move-action.)I don't really see the benefit of Sprayflesh here, it takes more time, has the chance of failing, costs more and is less flexible.
Again you miss the point. I don't think you understand how this works. Please go back and reread things. The sprayflesh does not perform its normal functions. So thus you are wrong.
When used in this way, the medpatch or sprayflesh does not perform any of its normal functions.
So therefore as a full round action I can give 9(15) in your example. If you do make the DC 30 then you are still giving more than the average of an MK II healing serum. Also it could be argue that you don't even use the DC of the sprayflesh because of the quoted text. Then as I see nothing is stopping you from using an advanced med kit with this. Medical expert simply allows you to use a sprayflesh or medpatch to perform TDW faster. This makes the DC 20 (25), which isn't that difficult to go with.
Technology doesn't come close until you buy a Regeneration Table, which ironically describes it's effects as if you went to a spellcaster
Check these out then: Nanite Hypopen.
No need to wait so long to copy spellcasters while using technology.
@Micheal Smith: Indeed I missed the last sentence of the Feat. And I think I see your point now.
But the question is: Is this slightly increased, fixed healing worth the investment(One Feat, Focus on Int, Skillpoint? (Compared to a Serum of Healing)?
A Serum of Healing can be used by anyone, for roughly the same amount of healing (average - luckly even more (or less^^)) with no check etc.
So where is the benefit of Sprayflesh compared to a Serum of Healing? (It should have a benefit since you have to invest more).
I see your point, but still I'm not convinced that this is a valid alternativ to Serum of Healing...
@Micheal Smith: Indeed I missed the last sentence of the Feat. And I think I see your point now.
But the question is: Is this slightly increased, fixed healing worth the investment(One Feat, Focus on Int, Skillpoint? (Compared to a Serum of Healing)?
A Serum of Healing can be used by anyone, for roughly the same amount of healing (average - luckly even more (or less^^)) with no check etc.
So where is the benefit of Sprayflesh compared to a Serum of Healing? (It should have a benefit since you have to invest more).
I see your point, but still I'm not convinced that this is a valid alternativ to Serum of Healing...
It is consistent. I would rather have consistent healing than getting 3. I mean you pay 425 credits and have the possibility of getting 3 hp. Yes there is the chance of getting 24. Or I pay 440 credits give a good chuck. On average sprayflesh will give more. Yes it is a bit of investment but if you don't have a mystic then anything helps. I am playing a biohacker (playtest) and he doesn't like the concept of magic. He prefers technology over all.
So I needed a way to help heal and this is ANOTHER option. I think this is perceptive, for it being good.
Question -
Can you take 20 on Medicine / Treat Deadly Wounds?It looks like you can take 20 but I thought I read somewhere you had to make that D20 roll.
Although two medical tasks specifically state you cannot take 20 (First Aid and Long-Term Care) most GMs I've discussed this with will rule that you cannot take 20 on any of the medicine tasks, to be realistic.
@Micheal Smith: Indeed I missed the last sentence of the Feat. And I think I see your point now.
But the question is: Is this slightly increased, fixed healing worth the investment(One Feat, Focus on Int, Skillpoint? (Compared to a Serum of Healing)?
A Serum of Healing can be used by anyone, for roughly the same amount of healing (average - luckly even more (or less^^)) with no check etc.
So where is the benefit of Sprayflesh compared to a Serum of Healing? (It should have a benefit since you have to invest more).
I see your point, but still I'm not convinced that this is a valid alternativ to Serum of Healing...
It is consistent. I would rather have consistent healing than getting 3. I mean you pay 425 credits and have the possibility of getting 3 hp. Yes there is the chance of getting 24. Or I pay 440 credits give a good chuck. On average sprayflesh will give more. Yes it is a bit of investment but if you don't have a mystic then anything helps. I am playing a biohacker (playtest) and he doesn't like the concept of magic. He prefers technology over all.
So I needed a way to help heal and this is ANOTHER option. I think this is perceptive, for it being good.
You don't pay 450 to get 3d8. you pay 150 to get 3d8/ its FAR more economical to buy a bunch of low level healing serums for out of combat healing than to invest feats into doing the same.
@Micheal Smith: Indeed I missed the last sentence of the Feat. And I think I see your point now.
But the question is: Is this slightly increased, fixed healing worth the investment(One Feat, Focus on Int, Skillpoint? (Compared to a Serum of Healing)?
A Serum of Healing can be used by anyone, for roughly the same amount of healing (average - luckly even more (or less^^)) with no check etc.
So where is the benefit of Sprayflesh compared to a Serum of Healing? (It should have a benefit since you have to invest more).
I see your point, but still I'm not convinced that this is a valid alternativ to Serum of Healing...
It is consistent. I would rather have consistent healing than getting 3. I mean you pay 425 credits and have the possibility of getting 3 hp. Yes there is the chance of getting 24. Or I pay 440 credits give a good chuck. On average sprayflesh will give more. Yes it is a bit of investment but if you don't have a mystic then anything helps. I am playing a biohacker (playtest) and he doesn't like the concept of magic. He prefers technology over all.
So I needed a way to help heal and this is ANOTHER option. I think this is perceptive, for it being good.
You don't pay 450 to get 3d8. you pay 150 to get 3d8/ its FAR more economical to buy a bunch of low level healing serums for out of combat healing than to invest feats into doing the same.
Ok you clearly missed the point. We were discussing in combat healing as a full round action. So your solution is the worse. Out of combat yes you have the best solution.