If I have a requirement for a feat that I took- for example, Str 15 for Eldritch Claws- and I meet the requirement BUT I am then hit with a status effect that lowers my strength, do I lose the use of the feat?
"Prerequisite: A minimum ability score, another feat or feats, a minimum base attack bonus, a minimum number of ranks in one or more skills, or anything else required in order to take the feat."
See, the character has strength 15 and so can TAKE Eldritch Claws. The rules do not say he needs Strength 15 to Eldritch Claws.
Can anyone clarify? Seems to me that feats should not be turned off like that.
1) The guy does not suddenly forget what he learned
2) This would be a huge pain to track in-game. Do PCs try lowering NPC intelligence to turn off abilities?
Please distinguish between lowering an Ability score, and handing out Ability Damage.
Ability damage (which is given by most poisons) will only net you a penalty to the use of said ability, the ability remaining intact for all purposes.
Ability drain, or the actual reduction of abilities, WILL count towards your prerequisite, RAW.
What I cannot find at the time is what happens if you take a penalty to the actual Ability score (as per being penalized on your DEX when under the effect of Enlarge Person... would this effect nix Feats like Deadly Aim, or Dodge if bringing you below Dex 13? Would being exhausted result in not being able to use Eldritch Claws, Power Attack or Deadly Aim? I'd vote yes, but frankly, from all I can see, the rules are silent on this one.
So exactly. I am most worried about Mutagen's attribute malus. It seems to me that such a temporary effect is the same as ability damage: both are temprorary and operate with a duration.
Given the fact that the INT penalty dished out via Touch of Idiocy does mess up your spellcasting abilities, I'd vote for penalties temporarily disabling effects. But, like I wrote, I cannot find anything in the RAW about prereqs for Feats.
Well, if that is your position, why doesn't a Strength lowering poison turn off Eldritch Claws? It is the exact same sort of effect.
Seems like you are creating a different set of rules for physical and mental attributes.
Umm... no.
The typical poison deals Ability Damage.
Your typical mutagen creates an Ability Penalty.
Those are not the same. Yes, I'm mincing words here... but these are, in fact, two different mechanisms, rules-wise.
Can you direct me to the rule distinction of ability penalty vs damage and how that impacts feat use?
Feat section in the Core rules:
Prerequisites
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.A character can't use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables.
About Ability damage etcetera...
Ability Score Damage, Penalty, and Drain
Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores. This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability.For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability. If the amount of ability damage you have taken equals or exceeds your ability score, you immediately fall unconscious until the damage is less than your ability score...
Some spells and abilities cause you to take an ability penalty for a limited amount of time. While in effect, these penalties function just like ability damage, but they cannot cause you to fall unconscious or die. In essence, penalties cannot decrease your ability score to less than 1.
Ability Drain: Ability drain actually reduces the relevant ability score. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to lose skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. Ability drain can be healed through the use of spells such as restoration.
Ah... just realized the part in italics (Ability Penalty being considered as a lesser form of Ability Damage). So, unless you're taking Ability Drain for whatever reason, you should be fine.
Note to self: must... read... things... again.
Oh, and in reply to your example of losing Arcane Armor Training for being level drained: There is no such thing as level draining in Pathfinder. Negative Levels have clearly specified effects, and reducing your Level (as in being prerequisite for whatnot) is not among them.
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Huh, learn something new every day.
I always figured ability damage shut off ability based feats, like ability drain does. But ability penalties didn't.
i.e. Shadow hits 14 str fighter for 2 points of damage, shuts down Power attack.
critter hits same fighter later for 2 points of strength drain, shuts down power attack.
Later, after greater restoration figher gets hit by ray of enfeeblement Power Attack still going strong.
Applying abilities penalties such as they switch off feats does all sorts of weird things if you take it through.
A character needs a dex of 17 not to lose his improved grapple feat while ... grappling.