2 handed weapons in 1 hand, the two FAQ

[Diego Rossi]

"Pathfinder Design Team" May 24, 2013, 09:01 PM | wrote:

FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qno

Power Attack: If I am using a two-handed weapon with one hand (such as a lance while mounted), do still I get the +50% damage for using a two-handed weapon?

Yes.

"Pathfinder Design Team" Sat, Jul 20, 2013, 01:26 AM wrote:

FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9quw

Weapons, Two-Handed in One Hand: When a feat or other special ability says to treat a weapon that is normally wielded in two hands as a one handed weapon, does it get treated as one or two handed weapon for the purposes of how to apply the Strength modifier or the Power Attack feat?

If you're wielding it in one hand (even if it is normally a two-handed weapon), treat it as a one-handed weapon for the purpose of how much Strength to apply, the Power Attack damage bonus, and so on.

Maybe someone has already addressed this problem in the thread about fighting with a two handed weapon and a secondary weapon, but I have abandoned that thread early because most post were of little interest.

The question is, how do you apply the two FAQs together?

In the discussions about using 2 handed weapons one handed (the oner that originated the first FAQs) people was arguing that someone using a small falchion one handed would get all the benefits of using a 2 handed weapon.
The first FAQ seem to allow that, the second to disallow that.
The first FAQ has been superseded? They are both in the FAQ list.

The Inappropriately Sized Weapons part of the rules don't say that the weapon is "wielded as" light, 1-handed or 2-handed weapon, it say that it is the "measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon".
The lance say: "A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand."

Reading that in the light of the FAQs I get the impression that the effect is the opposite of what is intended. The lance, wielded in one hand thanks to a special ability of the lance, is treated as a 1 handed weapon for power attack. The 2 handed falchion, used in one hand thanks to being sized for a smaller character can be used in one hand but it hasn't a special ability that allow that, so work as a 2 handed weapon.

[Crash_00]

Quote:

The Inappropriately Sized Weapons part of the rules don't say that the weapon is "wielded as" light, 1-handed or 2-handed weapon, it say that it is the "measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon".

Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed classifications are all measures of effort. The first sentence under the section on those classifications is:

Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed Melee Weapons:
This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat.

So, when the Inappropriately Sized Weapons part of the rules says:
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.

It is telling us that the weapon is treated just like a weapon of that type for the character (with the addition of the -2 penalty for being the wrong size).

As for the two FAQs, they are not contradictory, they just cover two issues that are very similar but not completely alike.

There is a distinct difference in the way a Lance is worded compared to the example from the second FAQ. The lance is wielded in one hand while mounted. The other weapons are stated to be wielded "as a one-handed weapon."

While the difference is subtle, it's has a fairly large difference mechanically. The Lance, while being wielded with one hand, is still treated as a two handed weapon. The only thing that is changed is the number of hands required on the weapon.

As for the other weapons. They are wielded as one handed weapons for all purposes. Number of hands required, abilities, etc. They still maintain their two handed properties (HP and such) though.

[Ilja]

Agreed with Crash on this one, though I still don't think the "effort" terminology is relevant.

The first FAQ deals with wording as "wield in one hand" and the second FAQ deals with wording as "wield as one-handed weapon".

So small falchion: One-handed weapon, +2 from PA.
Lance in one hand while mounted: two-handed weapon wielded in one hand, +3 from PA.
Large longsword: Two-handed weapon, +3 from PA.

[Diego Rossi]

Ilja wrote:

Agreed with Crash on this one, though I still don't think the "effort" terminology is relevant.

The first FAQ deals with wording as "wield in one hand" and the second FAQ deals with wording as "wield as one-handed weapon".

So small falchion: One-handed weapon, +2 from PA.
Lance in one hand while mounted: two-handed weapon wielded in one hand, +3 from PA.
Large longsword: Two-handed weapon, +3 from PA.

I agree that that is certainly the RAI and how it should work, but read by a non native English it is not so clear.

I think that a rewording and unification of the two FAQs would be a good idea.

[Ilja]

Diego Rossi wrote:

I agree that that is certainly the RAI and how it should work, but read by a non native English it is not so clear.
I think that a rewording and unification of the two FAQs would be a good idea.

Fully agreed.

Honestly, there have been pretty major faqs, some nearly to the point of errata - I feel they should do one more big round of FAQ answering and then make a new real printing of the CRB, incorporating FAQ either in the rules text or as a separate chapter at the end.

[Nefreet]

I would personally love to see the lance FAQ updated to include the +50% damage from Strength. Gaining only the damage bonus from Power Attack makes no sense to me.

[Quandary]

I hit FAQ. You can too. We can three... 8-D

The newer FAQ has wording that is potentially confusing: "When a feat or other special ability says"
Although later (the "answer") says "If you're wielding it in one hand...", the initial reference to feats/special abilities
could be construed as the FAQ not applying to things which are simply features of a given weapon (e.g. Lance),
when you are using an 'inappropriately sized weapon', the result of a spell, or anything else that doesn't fall under "feat/ability".