Can someone explain to me why monster Tactician Inquisitor is PFS Banned?

[Malik Gyan Daumantas]

I know people will move on to PF2 so this likely doesn't matter anymore, but i'm just trying to understand the reasoning behind it.

[VoodistMonk]

Too good, apparently. How dare you share Teamwork feats with your summons. Martha, fetch me the banhammer!

[Kurald Galain]

Summon Monster builds are frowned upon in PFS because of how much playtime they tend to take up. Archetypes that let you field more than two creatures at the same time tend to be banned for this reason, e.g. Packmaster hunter or Pack Lord druid.

[Melkiador]

It's one of the few things to be banned just for being overpowered. It's basically a stronger version of the summoner. You can have summons and your animal companion pet out at the same time while also having way better skills, slightly better weapons, better saves and much better class features still remaining. And on top of that, all of your summons are even better than the summoner because of teamwork feat sharing.

There are also other minor issues and advantages. The feat sharing even more strongly pushes you into summoning multiples instead of singles, which eats more table time. And being wisdom based is often better than being charisma based.

[Malik Gyan Daumantas]

Kurald Galain wrote:

Summon Monster builds are frowned upon in PFS because of how much playtime they tend to take up. Archetypes that let you field more than two creatures at the same time tend to be banned for this reason, e.g. Packmaster hunter or Pack Lord druid.

I guess i dont see it because i generally have a personal rule where i only summon one creature at a time, unless its like Lantern Archons or Air Elementals where the entire point is to swarm the battlefield with a whole bunch of em.

[Melkiador]

Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:

Kurald Galain wrote:

Summon Monster builds are frowned upon in PFS because of how much playtime they tend to take up. Archetypes that let you field more than two creatures at the same time tend to be banned for this reason, e.g. Packmaster hunter or Pack Lord druid.

I guess i dont see it because i generally have a personal rule where i only summon one creature at a time, unless its like Lantern Archons or Air Elementals where the entire point is to swarm the battlefield with a whole bunch of em.

As I mentioned in my post you probably didn't see because of timing, the tactician even more strongly pushes you towards summoning multiples, because the teamwork feats require teammates with that feat.

Summoning multiples is already numerically superior to summoning singles in most cases, but the tactician takes it over the ledge to where you aren't doing it right if you aren't summoning multiples.

[Taja the Barbarian]

Per the sidebar from the also-banned 'Master Summoner' Summoner:

Hordes of Summoned Monsters wrote:

The broodmaster and master summoner archetypes can potentially have 5, 10, or even more summoned creatures in play. This is a deliberate feature of these archetypes, and means that the summoner can potentially be a strong candidate for “solo” adventuring by one player. However, in the hands of an inexperienced or moderately experienced player, dealing with all of those creatures in combat can take a long time, forcing other players to wait extended periods between their turns in the initiative. It is strongly recommended that GMs only allow these archetypes for experienced players, or decide on a way to speed up the summoner's turn (such as by allowing other players to control some of the summoned monsters).

It isn't feasible for PFS to decide who is or isn't good enough to control a Horde, so they simply banned it altogether...

[Azothath]

there are several ways for things to get banned or declared 'out of scope'/not legal. Ultimately it is the Org Play Coordinator's decision as influenced by Paizo, developers memories of previous Org Play campaigns, trusted volunteer team input, the desire for a simple workable game in an Org Play format.

Simply put Org Play limits the number of pets and creatures and the roles they play at the table. A PC can have one active combatant. Summoning can blow the lid off that but it is limited by spell slots and short summoning durations.

Summonings & persistent Undead henchmen affect the CR of the party (just via headcount & HD if nothing else). Adding teamwork feats to that just makes it more pronounced.

so that's two good reasons.

[Arkham Joker]

Because its very, very powerful and commits the cardinal sin in that it completely overshadows the vanilla version of the class.

Master Summoner and Pact Wizard (HH) fall into the same farcical category.

[Belafon]

Bear in mind that the Monster Tactician doesn’t get an animal companion (or eidolon, etc) by default and can only have one summon monster spell in effect at once. It’s not nearly as bad as some other archetypes from that perspective.

Which isn’t to say that wasn’t a consideration at all. Not all players have the required level of skill to coordinate multiple creatures (especially with teamwork feats) and not slow down the table.

And it probably is “better” than the base class. You get the summons and teamwork sharing in return for giving up judgments. Which can be used far fewer times per day and (at least at PFS levels) provide useful bonuses but less overall damage and utility than the monsters.

(One thing that is frequently misunderstood is that PFS archetype bans weren’t solely based on comparing the archetype to another class or theoretical build, but rather to see if it was a power increase on the base class of the archetype. In other words “But this other class is even better!” wasn’t a valid argument for legalizing a banned archetype. Had this confirmed to me by a PFS developer at PaizoCon one year.)

[Arkham Joker]

Another reason is that the concept is a "bit morally dodgy" for PFS tables.... eg) Seducer and Gingerbread Witch

[Azothath]

Arkham Joker wrote:

Another reason is that the concept is a "bit morally dodgy" for PFS tables.... eg) Seducer and Gingerbread Witch

lol... at least pick an axe to grind that'll hit the target

[Mightypion]

Essentially its similar to why Primalist is banned, not as much because of its superiority over other Bloodrager archetypes, which isnt actually that pronounced (unless you compare it with the somewhat deliberatly gimped archetypes like mixed blood), but because of its superiority over Barbarians.

[Melkiador]

Like how the synthesist is a weaker summoner but a stronger fighter.