Shifters SoP / Eberron

[ShadowcatX]

So I'm working on a Pathfinder Eberron powered exclusively by Spheres and while a lot of the conversions are easy, shifters are a bit of a thing. I could just go with a straight conversion, but I kind of want it to blend better with spheres better than that. The wording on these is rough but they convey the direction I'm going (I think). I'm also not a stickler for RAW by the ARG, I'm just including my guesses as to points value on the traits as a kind of benchmark.

Shifters are humanoids with the shapeshifter subtype.

+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Chr (Standard, 0 points)

Shifters begin speaking common. Shifters with a bonus from intelligence may select bonus languages from the following list (TBD). (Standard, 0 points)

They gain the basic Magical Training feat for the Alteration sphere as a bonus feat, but with lycanthropic drawback and as long as they possess the lycanthropic drawback. Additionally, as long as they possess the lycanthropic drawback they cannot use the change target’s cosmetic appearance option. They do not gain an additional talent for the lycanthropic drawback, but it may be bought off as normal. (1 point? - Basically static bonus feat, but with a drawback. Feels wrong to charge the full 2 points for it, but giving it for free seems wrong as well.)

Shifters have low-light vision. (1 point)

While under an alteration effect, they gain one additional trait of their choice from those allowed to them. (This racial trait is not lost during alteration effects.) (2 points? There isn't an extra trait feat, but bestial traits roughly the same thing, only better, and there is an extra bestial trait feat.)

Depending upon the shifter's tribe the shifter gets one of the following while under the effects of an alteration effect (this racial trait is not lost while under an alteration effect): +2 racial bonus to natural armor; +2 to strength; +2 to dexterity; (3 points? Not quite sure how to rank this. A permanent bonus to a stat is +4, a permanent +2 to natural armor is +3, but this has something of a drawback with it.)

Shifters get a +2 racial bonus to acrobatics, climb, and survival. (2 points? I know the skill bonuses could be argued to be worth 6 points, and probably are according to the ARG, but the integrated racial talent provides +1 to 3 skills for 1 point, and bluff and diplomacy are, arguably, worth more than the skills shifter gets. And let's face it, 2 points for a +2 to a skill, especially when you can get assigned a skill focus for those same 2 points and gain either 3 or 6 to that same skill is a bit much. )

If my points estimates are roughly accurate, shifters are clocking in at around 9 points, and while they possess a couple of traits that could be argues as "advanced" I think they're roughly on par with standard races.

[Ssalarn]

Have you looked at skinwalkers? They cover pretty much all of the extended shifter stuff from 3.5 and even work pretty well with the OG shifter feats using minimal conversion.

They don't use spheres, but is that necessary from the race angle? Giving them Magical Training (Alteration) might be more complicated for anyone wanting to play a shifter who uses SoP than just playing a skinwalker and taking talents normally.

If nothing else they should serve as a decent point of comparison since they do a lot of what you're looking to do (and they clock in at 10 RP).

[Grovestrider]

Instead of Alteration sphere, why not just give them the Transformation feat?

[ShadowcatX]

Ssalarn wrote:

Have you looked at skinwalkers? They cover pretty much all of the extended shifter stuff from 3.5 and even work pretty well with the OG shifter feats using minimal conversion.

They don't use spheres, but is that necessary from the race angle? Giving them Magical Training (Alteration) might be more complicated for anyone wanting to play a shifter who uses SoP than just playing a skinwalker and taking talents normally.

If nothing else they should serve as a decent point of comparison since they do a lot of what you're looking to do (and they clock in at 10 RP).

I'm really not interested in a different race. Do you have anything to offer on the race I posted?

[ShadowcatX]

Grovestrider wrote:

Instead of Alteration sphere, why not just give them the Transformation feat?

Shifters in Eberron don't transform into animals any more often than humans do. Blank form, however, suits them very well.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

ShadowcatX wrote:

Depending upon the shifter's tribe the shifter gets one of the following while under the effects of an alteration effect (this racial trait is not lost while under an alteration effect): +2 racial bonus to natural armor; +2 to strength; +2 to dexterity...

I thought Shifters only got this bonus when using their racial ability, not when doing other polymorph-based stuff.

There are actually quite a lot of grantable traits that would make for good Shifters. Maybe instead of what you've got right there give them a choice of 4-5 (from a list you designate) as payment for the Lycanthropic drawback. So if a hypothetical player wanted to play a Shifter descended form were-hedgehogs they could take Spines as one of their extra traits. (I realize Shifter traits are supposed to reflect the list of lycanthropes traditional to D&D, but if that's what you want just make your list so only those types of animals are reflected.)

[ShadowcatX]

SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:

ShadowcatX wrote:

Depending upon the shifter's tribe the shifter gets one of the following while under the effects of an alteration effect (this racial trait is not lost while under an alteration effect): +2 racial bonus to natural armor; +2 to strength; +2 to dexterity...

I thought Shifters only got this bonus when using their racial ability, not when doing other polymorph-based stuff.

Normally they do. They also only got their natural weapons while using their ability, but it makes no sense to me that shapeshifting makes a shapeshifter unable to shapeshift. (If that makes any sense.) So that's what I'm changing as I move them into spheres, since I'm making their racial ability use the alteration ability. I feel it's smoother and more intuitive this way.

Quote:

There are actually quite a lot of grantable traits that would make for good Shifters. Maybe instead of what you've got right there give them a choice of 4-5 (from a list you designate) as payment for the Lycanthropic drawback. So if a hypothetical player wanted to play a Shifter descended form were-hedgehogs they could take Spines as one of their extra traits. (I realize Shifter traits are supposed to reflect the list of lycanthropes traditional to D&D, but if that's what you want just make your list so only those types of animals are reflected.)

That's interesting. I will definitely look into that. Thank you.