| Hydronz1 |
| Taggerung559 |
Some thoughts as I read through:
How long is the ward created by warded patrol supposed to last? Just for that one round? As long as you continue patrolling? Are you allowed to concentrate on it or pay the standard spell point for it to persist once you finish the patrol?
Seconding renaming "fortification" to something else for clarity. Maybe something like bulwark?
What's there seems decent, though I feel like it could definitely use more...stuff? I guess?
The fact that you don't get any new class features from levels 11-19 feels a bit offputting, but there's also the fact that beyond warded patrol at level 1, all it does is make the rest of your party a bit safer via mostly passive, constant buffs. Part of that is definitely because a large amount of what this class feels like it wants to do is already covered by the two spheres it gets, which makes it hard for me to think of anything that should be added. I definitely feel like the class itself should have some more active abilities though.
| Hydronz1 |
Oh sorry! I should have stated that i havent actually finished the class *facepalm* im still attempting to work out some of the later level abilities.
Also, yeah i thought fortification would cause some issues! Perhaps Reinforcements?
EDIT: I've changed the wording of warded patrol, it now has a duration, though if anyone has any suggestions for changing of wording for clarity, feel free to suggest!
| GM Rednal |
Hmm... maybe rename "Warden's Charge" as well. "I'm going to charge Player B" is too easy to misinterpret as actually attacking them. XD Can't call it a Ward, either, because that's a type of Protection talent. Protectee, maybe? (The general principle is "if it's used elsewhere as a name, especially in the core rules, try to avoid applying it to anything else".)
A d12 hit die is extremely unusual on a 3/4ths BAB class, which is usually a d8, though I understand the choice based on the theme of the class. As a tradeoff for the unusually high hit dice, though, I'd swap the Fort and Reflex saves. This makes the class better at dodging damaging blasts and spells, and they shouldn't be outright bad at Fort saves because the class encourages investing in Constitution anyway. d10 is the highest normal hit dice, and normally limited to full BAB characters. If you're going above that, there should be a cost - in this case, I'm recommending swapping from the medium-important save (Fort) to the least-important save (Will).
You can tighten up the wording on some of the Reinforcements. For example, lots of them say "Whenever an ally is benefiting from X, they..." but don't actually specify who "they" is. I think it would be more precise to say "that ally" or "the Warden" instead of the somewhat-ambiguous "they".
| Hydronz1 |
Thanks for the feedback! Yeah, ive felt like 'wardens charge' was too close to just charging, haha.
Yeah. I really like the d12 hit die haha. Would it be better if i bumped it up to full bab or is it merely that the class is a bit unusual because of my choices?
Ah... Thanks! Damn! Thought i sorted those out! Ill fix that!
EDIT: Would something like "Wardens guard, or even Guard" work? I guess the definitive nature of guard is akin to other primary class features and would be easy to recognise? "I enter a rage, id like to sneak attack, id like to guard X"
EDIT: I understand the saves too, I guess it would've turned into the issue with Monks having Good Will saves before Unchained XD.
| GM Rednal |
Guard might work for the name there - that's not really used for any common actions or spells.
For the hit dice, the general rule is that full BAB gets d10, 3/4ths BAB gets d8, and 1/2 BAB gets d6. Basically, it's a class' BAB that determines their hit dice. Classes with d12 hit dice are quite rare because that's a fairly significant buff. Going one rank different is unusual. Going two ranks different is almost unknown. That said, I don't think the class should go up to Full BAB - full attack bonus *and* mid-casting is a very powerful combination, and it's more appropriate for Champions to be relatively balanced at each. They're not as good at combat as a true warrior and they're not as good at magic as a pure caster, but they're decent at each. You could reasonably go to Full BAB if you dropped to low casting, though. That's completely fine.
Making classes is as much art as science, and most rules can be bent a little to make a good theme. XD "Tough, but not necessarily the strongest at offense" isn't an absurd idea, after all. What I *do* think is that there should be a real cost for that hit die, maybe even dropping down to just one good save (Will). So they'd be very good at taking hits, but not as good at avoiding them. If you think that's just a little too weak for the level you want to make, perhaps a temporary uses/day boost to a save would work?
Warden's Determination: When you are subject to an effect that requires you to make a Fortitude or Reflex save, you may treat your saving throw bonus from your Warden levels as having fast progression (like your Will save) rather than slow progression. You can use this ability three times per day. You must use this ability after you roll your saving throw but before the results are revealed.
They're still limited, but that gives a bit of a cushion to soften the one good save idea... and reinforces the idea of a determined guard putting effort into protecting someone. XD
Alternatively, keep the saves as-is and drop to a d10 hit dice.
| GM Rednal |
Also, I realized that I accidentally called Will the least-important save above. That is wrong. o wo; I meant Reflex. (Failing Reflex saves usually just means damage, which is annoying but fairly easy to fix and honestly not too different from just being attacked. This is why it's the least important. Failing Fort saves can lead to status ailments like lowered stats from poison, and those kind of debuffs can be more of a problem than lost HP, so it's the middle save. Failing Will saves can mean total loss of control for your character because of mind-controlling powers, even the potential to start attacking your own team, which is why it's the most important save.)
| Hydronz1 |
I was thinking about dropping to one save! Yeah, i was thinking that despite having d12s, the lower BAB than normal would have compensated a little for that, though I think dropping to one good save is worth it, thanks!
I could grant the Warden Stalwart, i don't know if having 2 defensive abilities (uncanny dodge AND stalwart) would be too much, but i guess rogue gets away with it XD
| GM Rednal |
Pretty much. The converse of what I described above is also true - if a class is otherwise normal with the hit die, BAB, etc., but only has one good save, they should get something extra as compensation. For Rogues, that means while they're still not very good at the other two saves, they're particularly good at the one they have. ^^
| GM Rednal |
Looks like it's really starting to come together. ^^ That said, I think it could use something at 11th, 16th, and 19th levels. In general, Pathfinder tries to avoid "dead" levels where not much is going on, and one talent isn't quiiiite enough. You'll notice the official Spheres classes tend to avoid that, too. It doesn't have to be a big powerup or a major ability, but there should be something there.