Ok, so a friend has been talking about making a new campaign. However, more like he imagines Kingmaker should have been. I guess he played through part of it, read some of the books, and wasn't happy with how it was done. He said too much of it had zero to do with founding, running, and expanding your kingdom. I haven't played or read any of it, so I don't know.
But anyway he says he's making his own campaign where the PC's are trying to set up a new nation and/or swallow up the other tiny cities/nations. He said he still intends to use the kingdom rules from UC though.
So some of us were talking about building our group with an actual group plan. {GASP!} Shocking! I know right! Most of our group can have fun with almost any general type of character.
He isn't exactly a killer GM, but he does always play on 'hard mode' which I actually like. And his 'hard mode' usually includes the non-combat stuff as well as the combats. So we do need skills, strategies, plans, etc...
This led us to trying to figure out the 'best' group composition. We have to be able to function in combat, handle non-combat encounters, and run a kingdom. Hmm...
Right away, we got into disagreements on the very first role. The king (or whatever ruler title). Divination wizard for the info provided to make good decisions (but do many of the divination spells actually work very well for national type decisions). Cleric for the heavenly assistance (but do we want a theocracy). Martial type to lead the battle forces (later generations can go for a more cerebral leader after the nation is established). High charisma bard or sorcerer so people want to follow him and he can get people to agree with him (but kings don't usually actually do their own bargaining). On and on and on and ...
Toward the end I think we were kinda leaning toward a paladin or the magus that uses charisma to be a like-able figure head. With a council of smart people, spy, general, and so on.
Thought I would ask you folks what you think. How would you build a king and council that can fight, make bargains, and run a kingdom?
Generally speaking, the Kingdom building rolls aren't that tough to make and their are more adviser roles than their are most party members, so NPCs are going to have to take of them anyway. That means for the most part, any party can fill kingdom roles and the NPCs can take the ones that they don't.
The big exception is that the king really needs good CHR as you mention, I'd desire at least a 16 as a starting character.
If he thought it had nothing to do with founding, running, or expanding their Kingdom the GM actively chose to use the "Kingdom in the background" rules because unless that is done every one of those things are CRUCIAL to the story, development, and playstyle of the game.
For the Ruler, you need a PC with High Charisma, flat-out, nothing will replace this, and unless the Wizard plans on stat-dumping all physical scores and wisdom I advise against the idea.
Honestly, a Paladin, Sorcerer, or Bard would be a great fit for Ruler.
You're going to be using your Cleric as your Counselor, your Martial PCs for the General and Warden, and the Wizard as the Magister.
You're going to be able to make room for ANY PC that is able to mesh with the overall Kingdom Laws and Culture, though I do recommend NOT NOT NOT letting a PC take the role of Ruler at ANY POINT, I played in 3 Kingmaker type games (2 Actual Kingmaker, a 3rd pseudo Kingmaker in Ebberon) and twice the party elected a PC to Ruler and it turned out as a mess with them wavering between "my way or the highway" with the Ruler ignoring their council to "I dunno guys, what do YOU think, I know I'm the boss but I really dont care..." all the way to "Lets kill the King and take his Crown" because a pair of PCs teamed up with the Spymaster to start a rebellion.
Just my 2c
Themetricsystem wrote: If he thought it had nothing to do with founding, running, or expanding their Kingdom the GM actively chose to use the "Kingdom in the background" rules because unless that is done every one of those things are CRUCIAL to the story, development, and playstyle of the game... You may well be absolutely correct. As I said, I've never played and don't know anything about it first hand.
Dave Justus wrote: ...
The big exception is that the king really needs good CHR as you mention, I'd desire at least a 16 as a starting character...
Themetricsystem wrote: ...
For the Ruler, you need a PC with High Charisma, flat-out, nothing will replace this, ...
Honestly, a Paladin, Sorcerer, or Bard would be a great fit for Ruler.
...
I think that agrees with where we were leaning. So some charisma prime stat build for ruler.
Themetricsystem wrote: ... though I do recommend NOT NOT NOT letting a PC take the role of Ruler at ANY POINT, I played in 3 Kingmaker type games (2 Actual Kingmaker, a 3rd pseudo Kingmaker in Ebberon) and twice the party elected a PC to Ruler and it turned out as a mess with them wavering between "my way or the highway" with the Ruler ignoring their council to "I dunno guys, what do YOU think, I know I'm the boss but I really dont care..." all the way to "Lets kill the King and take his Crown" because a pair of PCs teamed up with the Spymaster to start a rebellion... I think we could probably get around this. At least a couple of us could do a good job of playing a figure head. Knows he's a figure head for the others making the real decisions and doing the real hard work. I don't think the rebellion thing is too likely with our group. I can see the campaign dying away if people lose interest, but not that sort of PvP BS.
So now the question is, what would make 'the best' figure head?
Paladin seems ideal, since everyone looks up to them. But I think the lawful-oath thing might get in the way too much. Hmm... You know the more I think about it, isn't there a magus archtype that casts off of charisma? Might just be ideal. A magus can really nova a huge amount of damage to a single target. So can gloriously 'win' any fight when people are watching to be the saving hero. But probably won't have the skill points for much more than diplomacy and bluff to be well liked. Magi aren't my favorite class (I prefer sorcerer for my charisma caster), but I'm sure one of us can come up with something we will enjoy. We will have to think about it.
In Skull & Shackles, my ninja/witch became a Pirate Lord. Had the campaign not ended, he would have been in a good position to take over as Pirate King, since he was a Diplomancer. He has a 29 Diplomacy at 14th level, making it easy to convince others. Likewise a 17 Sense Motive to keep him from being fooled. Add in the Leadership feat with a cohort and lots of followers (135 1st, 13 2nd, 7 3rd, 4 4th, 2 5th, and 2 6th). I already have my followers as a spy network, a coven, and running some of my ships.
Charisma is a good stat for the ninja's ki. So with many followers and great charisma, he would be one others would follow.
/cevah
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