The whole time


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

So this rogue talent (The Whole Time)allows a rogue to active various invisibility spell scrolls and wands. Treating the spells as if they were on his spell list.

Obviously, that make wand activation a snap. But a scroll? Is this a UMD check? Some other check? What's the DC?

Liberty's Edge

It allows him to use a scroll as well. Scrolls are spell trigger/spell completion items.


There're four requirements to cast a scroll:
1) Correct type
2) Spell on class list
3) Must have the requisite ability score
4) Caster level ≥ caster level of the scroll

#1 & #2 are fulfilled by the talent*.
#3 depends on the type of scroll:
Vanish: If it's an arcane scroll, you need int 11 or cha 11. If it's a psychic scroll, you need int 11.
Invisibility: If it's an arcane scroll, you need int 12 or cha 12. If it's a divine scroll, you need wis 12 or cha 12. If it's a psychic scroll, you need int 12 or wis 12 or cha 12.
Greater Invisibility: If it's an arcane scroll, you need int 14 or cha 13. If it's a divine scroll, you need wis 14 or cha 14. If it's a psychic scroll, you need int 14 or wis 14 or cha 13.
#4 is something that the talent doesn't help for, even though I presume that's an oversight. To cast the scroll, you need to make a caster level check (1d20+0 in our case), DC is the scrolls caster level +1.
Theoretically, every scroll needs to be denoted as arcane/divine/psychic, and with the caster level at which it was created, but they never are in practise. In PFS, a bought Scroll of Greater Invisibility is always at caster level 1(Vanish)/3(Invis)/7(Greater Invis). In home games... well, ask your GM. An arcane scroll has a min caster level of 3 for Invis, and 7 for Greater Invis. A divine scroll has a min caster level of 4 for Invis, and 10 for Greater Invis. A psychic scroll has a min caster level of 4 for Invis, and 8 for Greater Invis.

*) The Rogue counts as being a 0th level antipaladin, bard, inquisitor, magus, medium, mesmerist, occultist, psychic, sorcerer, wizard, spiritualist, summoner, or unchained summoner for using such items (you pick one when using the item).

@Bhai: Scrolls are spell completion items.


I agree with Derklord as far as RAW goes.

That said, I would probably house-rule this talent to include automatic success of activation with said scrolls. It is a limited enough list that I don't think it would be unbalanced and by guess is that the author intended that to be the effect of the feat and didn't quite think it through.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

For #4, you are in the same position as a paladin or ranger of level 1-3. The spell is on your spell list but you have no caster level, so a UMD check would be required to fake one -- but at least that is all you would need to use UMD for in this case.

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