So I have read some notes from people who have read / played through that have mused on moving the introduction of the Kintargo contract into book 2 even including the visit to the devil
I see a lot of merit in this because the explanation that they can free Kintargo with a victory will give even more of an incentive to the group
Problems:
- How would they find out this early. As written Thrune has a copy and specific note from the contract devil. This obviously can’t be the source. But who else would have or know about it?
- how would they get there? Even a scaled down dungeon will probably take longer than the 10 minutes limit as written. Especially with the devil conversation. And plane jumping seems like a lot for level 4-7.
- It doesn’t seem like they could win an audience with the contract devil at that level. Why would this powerful tricksy contract devil take a group of level 6 guys seriously when there greatest acheivements are likely to be making Nox run away and killing a possessed artisan turned serial killer
- refitting the dungeon for a lower level looks quite possible but doesn’t seem fitting for the environment.
Have people done / are they considering anything to introduce this contract earlier than written
It seems like hints of this plus hints of the soul anchor from the cult could really centre the actual point of the AP early on
I also wanted the let my players know about the contract early, to give them a focus and a concrete goal earlier than the AP does. But I wanted to save their (first) trip to Hell for later. (I also hinted at the Soul Anchor earlier than the AP does, mainly through the aboleth encounter and different Mangvhune connection).
So I had Mailari tell the PCs about the contract after she got a seat on the Silver Council, At the start of book three she invited the PCs to a secret dinner at her school and told them the basics about the Kintargo contract, and that she had actually seen it once, This way my players got to know about the contract's existence from a first-hand witness, but without having the PCs getting their hands on it prematurely, and also not yet finding out about the contract devil Odexidie (sp?). They could then fuel the rebellion with the knowledge and hope of a possible "way out", and it gave the PCs a strong incentive to find the actual contract themselves... maybe Barzillai had it?
Please see below for my background and the reason for Mailari's knowledge about the Kintargo contract.
She is actually the older sister of Jackdaw (a fact that she keeps secret) and Amyreid Juliac (one of the O.G. Silver Ravens) was Jackdaw's half elf daughter, who Mailari raised and tutored (which was the main reason Mailari bought and took over the school).
There was bad blood between Mailari and Jackdaw, since Jackdaw in Mailari's eyes was much more interested in adventuring than in her family (except for recruiting her daughter - whom Mailari had gotten married in to a fine Kintargo noble house - to an endeavour who ultimately got her killed). But just before Jackdaw got captured she had retrieved a copy of the Kintargo contract, and showed it to Mailari in triumph.
She unfortunately disappeared with the contract on her, and in my HR this is the copy Barzillai now carries in his Chelish crux.
During the dinner Mailari told the PCs that Jackdaw did show her the contract and said it contained a hidden possibility to "free" Ravounel, but omitted their kinship. This was due to another subplot I have cooking, but if you would use Mailari for the contract exposition the way I did, I guess there's no reason for her not telling the PCs that Jackdaw was (is!) her sister.
I also wanted the let my players know about the contract early, to give them a focus and a concrete goal earlier than the AP does. But I wanted to save their (first) trip to Hell for later. (I also hinted at the Soul Anchor earlier than the AP does, mainly through the aboleth encounter and different Mangvhune connection).
So I had Mailari tell the PCs about the contract after she got a seat on the Silver Council, At the start of book three she invited the PCs to a secret dinner at her school and told them the basics about the Kintargo contract, and that she had actually seen it once, This way my players got to know about the contract's existence from a first-hand witness, but without having the PCs getting their hands on it prematurely, and also not yet finding out about the contract devil Odexidie (sp?). They could then fuel the rebellion with the knowledge and hope of a possible "way out", and it gave the PCs a strong incentive to find the actual contract themselves... maybe Barzillai had it?
Please see below for my background and the reason for Mailari's knowledge about the Kintargo contract.
** spoiler omitted **...
So in this had the elves deciphered enough to find the hidden secrets within? Because it seems like a very tough check and the assumption seems to be to go the contract devil for him to explain
Exactly how much did she know and tell the PCs? And did that / will that remove the incentive for the devil visit ?
So in this had the elves deciphered enough to find the hidden secrets within? Because it seems like a very tough check and the assumption seems to be to go the contract devil for him to explainExactly how much did she know and tell the PCs? And did that / will that remove the incentive for the devil visit ?
No, they had not. Jackdaw was too impulsive and reckless, and didn't take the time and effort to really investigate the contract's secrets (the way the PCs hopefully will do) before it all went south for them. And Mailari was mainly interested in protecting her niece from her wild and imprudent mother - she didn't care about some human civil war except how it would affect her loved ones (mainly Amyreid at that time). Jackdaw mainly showed her older sister the contract as a trophy, as a way of saying that all the berating she'd received from Mailari for risking hers and Amyreids lives for Kintargo, against an impossible foe, actually wasn't in vain at all. "Look here, you were wrong."
So, Jackdaw knew that there was something in there which could turn the tide for Kintargo but not how and why. Just where. This maintains the mystery and gives more of a hint to the PCs that there's a chance out there. But as far as the PCs know at that time, Mailari (or Jackdaw) could be wrong.
About Jackdaw and the contract, the way I reasoned the true instigator behind the contract and surrounding shenanigans was the same entity as the one the PCs finally confront in Hell's Rebels. So the reason Jackdaw got hold of it in the first place was because Asmodeus planted it. Asmodeus wanted to teach Abrogail I a lesson in humility early on, just like he now wants to do with Abby II (but has delegated it to Mephistopheles in the AP. "Hey Meph, you mind taking over the Golarion/Cheliax/Contract-project? I'm swamped this decade with getting out the tender for new bars for Rovagug's cage." "NP boss, I'll cram it in. Racquetball still on for tonight?").
So Asmodeus sent a dream to Jackdaw (disguised as a message from Milani - he's a master of lies after all) about where to find a copy of the contract, and that it could be used in the Silver Ravens' favor. They retrieved it, Amyreid cast a Commune to verify its authenticity and power, and that was about as far as they got (with Jackdaw taking the time to gloat before her sceptical sister and wave her prize around, of course). Kintargo (and Asmodeus) had bet on the wrong horse (Raven?), cue 75 years of being prodded with hot pokers by nasty Thrunies.
(This also touches one of my pet DM peeves - DM Mary Sues. While the original Silver Ravens can be portrayed as powerful and really cool when they're introduced, I don't want the PCs to walk around in their shadow. I want it to become clear that the originals were not the heroes of this story - the PCs are - and that they were actually quite flawed, and because of that ultimately failed. Which, hopefully, the PCs won't - barring a TPK :-D And this is something that Jackdaw will tell my PCs after she's been freed (and gotten back her sanity) - you guys are better than we were, better organized, more knowledgeable, better prepared. Go forth and succeed were we did not.)