Exactly how widespread is worship of Asmodeus in Kintargo?
It has the largest temple but i assume that was for show.
Does it increase throughout the early parts of the AP? Would there perhaps be people who go to try and curry favour with the new regime? Would they start trying to make it compulsory? That is too radical for what barzillai is trying to achieve I think . Would cause too much unrest
Do any of the cheliax books detail the lives and worship of the more common folk outside the cities . Would it simply be the only choice for them and what they have always known?
My players are quite hung up on “Devil worshippers”. They also had a real problem in the Midnigh Mirror module with the Nidalese village where the only place of worship was the ZK temple. But I really feel that for some people would just go on with it and the morality would not enter their minds (feel free to insert real world parallel here should you choose)
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The following are my opinions based on reading material about Golarion, Asmodeus, Cheliax, etc. I can't point to specific references (so don't ask :) Though Inner See Gods has a good writeup on Asmodeus.
The worship of Asmodeus has never taken hold as thoroughly in Kintargo as elsewhere and the previous administration did not encourage or support his temple as much as other government/noble structures in Cheliax. But there's only so much tolerance for such things even prior to the Glorious Reformation and martial law and the Temple of Asmodeus was the largest and most powerful in Kintargo. Other temples were small and of reduced influence. And on the Night of Ashes, three particularly troublesome temples/worship centers were destroyed and a few survivors are hiding in the Temple of Shelyn. It helps that the worshippers of Asmodeus are actively encouraged and rewarded for informing on their neighbors should their outward shows of piety lapse or stray. So most people in Kintargo pay lip service at least to the worship of Asmodeus (and on some level that's all Asmodeus wants - he doesn't care about your faith, he wants the proscribed forms and obedience to his authority.) As the AP begins, the Temple and Thrune work to extend and enforce Asmodeus power - keep in mind Barzillai is an Inquisitor of Asmodeus. And this unleashes a cadre of zealots (the Chelish Citizens Group) who have long bristled at Kintargo's failure to fall in line with how the rest of Cheliax serves Asmodeus and House Thrune.
The devil-worshipper angle is misconstrued for Golarion's mythology. Asmodeus is not a devil (unlike in previous editions of the game.) He is the god of contracts, pride, slavery and tyranny. His servants are devils and his domain is in Hell (and he has the title of Prince of Darkness) but those things are a bit of cultural appropriation as his history and motivations are not the same as The Devil of western religions. And Golarion's deities relate to one another more similarly to pantheistic eastern religions including a measure of tolerance for each other despite opposed alignments. In the mythology Saranrae and Asmodeus work together to imprison Rovagug for example. So faiths/servants of various gods are not engaged in open warfare in the streets as one might expect given their alignments.
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Since Corinstian Grivenner is an evangelist, I'd assume that he'd take advantage of this shift in administration. I don't want him going out amongst the people, as he would be too desirable a target for the PCs. (Because I didn't think of it until they were 7th level, when they'd really, really want to target him.) But, had I thought of it, I think I established him as a badass enough via the stories of Villiv, for him to go out periodically to evangelize to the people about the faith... at least until the end of book one when a bunch of redactors and a priest are murdered.
So, instead, I modified the typical Asmodean cleric 7 and called him Crassus Mentallo, famous traveling evangelist. (I subbed in spells like absolution, agonizing rebuke, suggestion, hold person, sanctuary, command, etc.) I had him evangelizing tieflings in Red Roof district to call out the party tiefling. Then we used the verbal duels rules. (It went okay, but getting the arguments out there was the important thing.)
VERBAL DUELS WITH ASMODEAN CLERIC EVANGELIST MENTALLO CRASSUS: Join the Asmodean church. [If the PC wants to burn him alive: "There’s a lot of innocent people here, mage. If you and I square off, a lot of innocents will be hurt. I would guess that you don’t want that to happen. Let’s debate and let the crowd be educated on the issues of the day." One negative energy burst could kill a bunch of NPCs...]
• Allegory/Parable of Asmodeus’ role in containing Rovagug moral: Asmodeus is trusted with the key to Rovagug’s prison. If the gods trust him, so should you.
• Allegory/parable: Children need discipline to thrive: regular eating times, regular reading, regular exercise, regular sleeping times. Failure to do that leads to unhappy, spoiled, and awful children. Discipline is in our nature, we need it to thrive. For your soul to thrive, you need discipline.
• Baiting: And the kids these days? They have no idea how we suffered to keep this nation whole. We ended the civil war that pit brother against brother, divided the empire, and brought anarchy to the job markets. Do you want that again? Your support can prevent it.
• Baiting: The Silver Ravens? Anything goes with them. Poetry. Graffiti. Riots. And do you really know who they are? Do you really know who’s backing them?
• Emotional appeal: Church of Asmodeus well known for its high-quality orphanages, taking care of children orphaned by war, disease, and poverty.
• Flattery and praise: Ordinary people think you are cursed or evil. We know you are special, blessed. We ask that you embrace your fiendish heritage through our worship. If you have demonic heritage, we can cure it through a special ritual so that you will give your children a fresh start.
• Flattery and Praise: Asmodeus believes in a meritocracy: the strong should rule over the weak as their worth is proven in their actions. You are strong—look at all you’ve survived. Be stronger with us.
• Flattery and praise: Worshippers of Asmodeus have wealth, steady jobs, security of our backing. Isn’t that what you want? Tell us what you want and we’ll put you on the path to getting it. Because we believe in you.
• Logic: He brings law and order: civilization requires rules and for people to be bound to do what they promise; contracts ensure that.
• Logic: He believes in consent: negotiation and agreement are at the center of his dogma
• Mockery: The Glorious Reclamation will tell you what’s good for you, what’s right for you, and what’s proper for you to do every day of your life and for all eternity. All of which is in addition to their laws. All they ask is that you beg for mercy, humble yourself, and give your hard-earned coin to the lazy rotters lying in the street. The Church of Asmodeus lets you decide what’s good for you within the rules that allow for a meritocracy that allows Cheliax to thrive. You never have to beg or give to society’s leeches. You just have to keep your eyes on the prize and play the game to win at life.
• Presence: Unrestrained free will leads to chaos, anarchy, civil war: Galt, for example. Need to have discipline, order, hierarchy in order for civilization to thrive.
• Presence: The problems right now are due to the Silver Ravens, who are kids and wreckers that are little more than barbarians. We work with the lawful civil authority to temper House Thrune’s attempts to bring Kintargo back under lawful control. Join us to work within the system for the changes you want.
• Rhetoric: All you have to do is come to church and listen to what we have to say. You don’t have to join the church to attend, pray, and seek our guidance. What kind of risks do the Silver Ravens want you to take on?
Since Corinstian Grivenner is an evangelist, I'd assume that he'd take advantage of this shift in administration. I don't want him going out amongst the people, as he would be too desirable a target for the PCs. (Because I didn't think of it until they were 7th level, when they'd really, really want to target him.) But, had I thought of it, I think I established him as a badass enough via the stories of Villiv, for him to go out periodically to evangelize to the people about the faith... at least until the end of book one when a bunch of redactors and a priest are murdered.
So, instead, I modified the typical Asmodean cleric 7 and called him Crassus Mentallo, famous traveling evangelist. (I subbed in spells like absolution, agonizing rebuke, suggestion, hold person, sanctuary, command, etc.) I had him evangelizing tieflings in Red Roof district to call out the party tiefling. Then we used the verbal duels rules. (It went okay, but getting the arguments out there was the important thing.)
VERBAL DUELS WITH ASMODEAN CLERIC EVANGELIST MENTALLO CRASSUS: Join the Asmodean church. [If the PC wants to burn him alive: "There’s a lot of innocent people here, mage. If you and I square off, a lot of innocents will be hurt. I would guess that you don’t want that to happen. Let’s debate and let the crowd be educated on the issues of the day." One negative energy burst could kill a bunch of NPCs...]
• Allegory/Parable of Asmodeus’ role in containing Rovagug moral: Asmodeus is trusted with the key to Rovagug’s prison. If the gods trust him, so should you.
• Allegory/parable: Children need discipline to thrive: regular eating times, regular reading, regular exercise, regular sleeping times. Failure to do that leads to unhappy, spoiled, and awful children. Discipline is in our nature, we need it to thrive. For your soul to thrive, you need discipline.
• Baiting: And the kids these days? They have no idea how we suffered to keep this nation whole. We ended the civil war that pit brother against brother, divided...
When did you use this? Start of book 2? And did you use verbal duel because too many innocents would die? Would a LE cleric really slaughter a bunch of people in a channel - I get foggy on these things sometimes
Would a LE cleric really slaughter a bunch of people in a channel
A LE inquisitor is willing to sacrifice 300 civilians, why wouldn't a cleric sacrifice a much smaller amount for "the greater good" and because "the Silver Ravens forced his hand"?
Would a LE cleric really slaughter a bunch of people in a channelA LE inquisitor is willing to sacrifice 300 civilians, why wouldn't a cleric sacrifice a much smaller amount for "the greater good" and because "the Silver Ravens forced his hand"?
Is this the Aria park incident ?
I used it during the start of book three, but you can change it to whatever level. Verbal duels are more about skills, and clerics are not well positioned to do them. Have a less optimal arrangement of skills and you've changed the encounter to be level appropriate.
If they attack, of course, all bets are off.
I used verbal duel rules because I wanted to have a non-combat challenge.
I think the LE evangelist would probably use the threat. If called on it, he'd shrug then go walk among the crowd and basically dare the rabble rouser to kill innocents, trusting that the 3rd level dottari in the crowd will come to protect him if necessary.
Also, it's not like most people there have sufficient ranks in spellcraft to tell who cast what at whom. Move action bluff that he's being targeted by a spell, "No, necromancer! Think of the children!" and then burst negative energy to kill everyone. I think that will suffice to start a controversy.
I love villains who protect themselves with PR.
A LE inquisitor is willing to sacrifice 300 civilians...Is this the Aria park incident ?
No, it (potentially) happens in book 3.
Also, it's not like most people there have sufficient ranks in spellcraft to tell who cast what at whom. Move action bluff that he's being targeted by a spell, "No, necromancer! Think of the children!" and then burst negative energy to kill everyone. I think that will suffice to start a controversy.
I love villains who protect themselves with PR.
That is an amazing idea!