How closely do people follow the random encounter tables. It would seem like paizo random encounters could lead to a large amount of extra encounters each book. Granted they don’t all need to be combats
My confusion and concern is regarding trying to make the game a more realistic sandbox. But encounters need to jump in difficulty but in some cases this doesn’t seem to make sense
For example most of the gangs of old Kintargo from book 2 could easily fend off the Dottari patrols from book one. As could the PCs by that point
And I get the vibe that the the levelled up dottari are specific guards and not the “new normal”
So do the book 1 street and sewer encounters still apply? And why would old Kintargo be so much hardier
I assume there might be some kind of change in circumstance that explain
I get that book 4 is very different given the pretty much open rebellion
I would like to try and give my PCs more illusion of choice and freedom to roam. But I am trying to make sense of how villains would be placed
Not closely at all, and we're on book 4 now. Then again, I don't care much for random encounters in general. I prefer all my encounters to be prepared and somewhat connected to the story/setting/PCs. What I have used are some of the typed out encounters, such as The Sewer Sage, but I would not roll on a table when prep or a selection is better. But that's just our group's play style.
The logic you can use for the increase in encounter power is that as the stakes get higher and higher, the big players get into the game. You don't use your elite guys/gals for the rabble.
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I've used the random encounters a few times but very sparingly. They were all in the first book (maybe some in book 2, but I don't think so) and I used my roll as guidance rather than a solid answer and it was only when they were in the sewers or out after curfew. I did that to show that both of those things could be dangerous. Occasionally it was great, other times it was a decent fight that did nothing other than make the players a little more cautious (which was my desired result).
For example, in book 1 they were exploring the sewers so I'd roll every once in awhile to see what random monster they found. At one point it was some tengu (or at least the roll was close enough that I used them) so that's how they met the River Talons and Ravzee. Other than that one, the sewers were monsters that would make sense to be in there. Unless, of course, the group went near the border of the River Talons' sewer territory, in which case there was usually a small gang-fight which never escalated to people being killed.
At night it was always a patrol of some sort.
I would occasionally roll during the day, when the group was crossing the bridge. That way I could describe a devil watching over the crowds or dottari harassing someone. But again, that was only in the first book and used to set the tone. ("You see the familiar sight of a [insert devil here] watching the traffic on the bridge.") None of them became fights, that would've resulted in people likely getting arrested. (Confrontations, sure, but never fights. After all, what sort of heroes wouldn't step up to defend someone being harassed by the corrupt cops? And it was a good way to get random NPCs introduced as thankful citizens.)
Pretty much a "Me, too." answer here. I've never been a big fan of random encounters - they can be a distraction especially since players/pc's don't know they're random and start trying to figure out how they are connected to the plot. Simple example: if they encounter Dottari, is it because the Dottari were looking for them specifically because of something they've done or is it random harassment from over zealous law enforcement? In a city, to create the impression of "hustle and bustle" they make a bit more sense but can still be problematical.
Since the random encounter chance is driven by the danger rating of the city and the players have an option to "Reduce Danger" if you're using the Rebellion mini-game, I've tried to stay diligent on actually rolling. Sometimes I "forget" to roll because something interesting is already going on and don't want to disrupt it; sometimes I actually just forget to roll and whenever an encounter does happen I never use random chance to pick (might roll until I get something I like.) As Warped Savant said (and the AP too) night time encounters are most often with Dottari or other Imperial entanglements.
The scaling up of random encounters through each chapter is completely unrealistic and simply a nod to game mechanics. You might suppose the tables from the first 3 books might be combined and show the full range of potential encounters in pre-Rebellion Kintargo, but in game play, many of those encounters will be uninteresting or a TPK (pending pc level vs. CR.)
I use the random encounters to get a sense of other possible elements to the city (such as what the mini-gangs of book 2 in Old Kintargo), the vampire female sorcerers (giving a sense of resources that Aluceda Vhol), flavor (the corpse stealers, the Diola Brothers), accuser devils and hell hounds on the street tells you where things are at in book 1, ghouls indicate why the Asmodeans cremate, the sewer sage is a creature I've been intrigued by, etc.
But, yes, cutting random encounters is what I do, so I tell the players periodically of what they've dealt with through narration. And I do it precisely so that precious table time is focused on plot and flavor, and so that the world isn't damaged by overwhelming the streets of Kintargo with random encounters with high CRs that weren't there before for little reason.
The gangs in book 2 look like a lot of fun
I am actually considering seeing if I can use the influence mechanic and let PCs try and “recruit” some as a side thing
Another point on random encounters - several of the tables have different varieties of devils / LE outsiders on them
Have I missed something about cheliax that is in some kind of source book? Is there really a prospect of them bumping into a bearded devil or Erinyes on the street? What would they possibly be doing? And should I assume that they have been called by some powerful member of the clergy?
I get that they are theme appropriate - I am just trying to get my head around it
I agree it seems unusual. And I don't know that it is addressed in the Cheliax sourcebooks but I'm not an expert on those - in many ways, Kintargo is not like the rest of Cheliax so knowing a lot about Cheliax may or may not be helpful.
I think the key things that might contribute are:
- The primary religion in Cheliax (and Kintargo) is the worship of Asmodeus, Prince of Darkness, Ruler of Hell, Etc. Devils are his servants.
- The largest building in Kintargo is the Temple of Asmodeus.
- The philosophy of House Thrune (and much of the Chelish nobility) is that Hell serves House Thrune/Cheliax so they have an interest in having devil servants to encourage/support this belief. (The fact its almost certainly a total delusion is besides the point - Asmodeus certainly doesn't see it that way.)
- Once called to Golarion the devils are not specifically bound to return to Hell. They live a long time so it doesn't take much calling for a good number of them to build up over time.
- Many devils can teleport at will. So it's possible many seen in the streets of Kintargo were not called to Kintargo originally.
- There's an entire slum dedicated to tieflings - the city has a population of 357 - most if not all of those have a devil for a parent. So devils have been up to all kinds of shenanigans for some time and in some numbers...
So while most visitors to Cheliax would likely be surprised or discomforted by devils walking the streets, most natives have become used to it (House Thrune has been in power for some 70 years.) Of course your players may have a hard time accepting it too. If so, I don't think omitting them as random encounters will be a great loss.
Is there really a prospect of them bumping into a bearded devil or Erinyes on the street? What would they possibly be doing?
I've had them doing most anything between walking with Tiarise (to show she was a huge threat when the players were starting to get too focused on going after her), to acting as security (watching the crowd), to carrying bags for their master, to selecting the best-looking cinnamon bun because they like how the cinnamon tingled when it touched their tongue.
You're the GM, you can literally have them doing whatever you want them to be doing.
Is there really a prospect of them bumping into a bearded devil or Erinyes on the street? What would they possibly be doing?I've had them doing most anything between walking with Tiarise (to show she was a huge threat when the players were starting to get too focused on going after her), to acting as security (watching the crowd), to carrying bags for their master, to selecting the best-looking cinnamon bun because they like how the cinnamon tingled when it touched their tongue.
You're the GM, you can literally have them doing whatever you want them to be doing.
When did your players start to focus on going after her?
I've had them doing most anything between walking with Tiarise (to show she was a huge threat when the players were starting to get too focused on going after her)When did your players start to focus on going after her?
Partway through book 2. They were able to get a description of her during book 1 as the person involved with the tooth fairies by canvassing the neighbourhood (it helped that a party member is a tiefling otherwise no one would've talked to them without ridiculously high rolls). In Varl Wex's apartment they found notes and drawings of who he was to kill next, along with a note that came with the gift of the kukri signed by "T" (Linguistics check to get a decent idea if it was a man or woman's writing and if it was possibly someone from Tian as Tiarise, Thrune, and Tayacet were all names that jumped out at them). They were having people watch the opera house for her and were wanting to ambush her when she left so I had to make sure she was never alone and show she was too much of a threat based on the party's level.
And in order to make her seem more important I had her attacking (and eventually killed) at the end of book 3 so she felt like a large villain rather than a speed bump in book 4. (And to show that Thrune was unhappy with how she failed against the Ravens with Wex I had the big bad at the end of book 3 cast Dimensional Anchor on her so that she couldn't run away... essentially Thrune saying "kill the ravens or die trying")
So reviving this point, I wanted to discuss book 3
There is a circa 5 day (if on horseback) journey to Menador gap
It seems highly unrealistic that they would encounter nothing along the way.
Or is the "hinterlands" encounter table supposed to be if you go off the road?
I am looking at trying to make some of these "encounters" be non combat. So rather than fighting 1d12 ogres have a village on the way have been razed by one due to dottari being pulled (there have been discussions elsewhere of saying all the "new" pro Thrune dottari are from out in the sticks rather than ones who were previously in the city)
Will o wisp could be combat, could be leading the party off route or could be a story of leading other travellers off route.
Just to show that there are things going on in countryside
Otherwise as written there would be 10 combats on the way there and 10 on the way back unless you had some crazy dice rolling. Extreme overkill
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I think I may keep some (Surprise Party looks fun but also a potential non plot related TPK depending on who fails their save...)
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I have "rolled" (plus ideas/questions). Any help or advise about how to put these in would be appreciated:
- 3 Bearded Devils
I am not clear what Bearded Devils do when not summoned or directly acting as foot-soldiers for Hell. Perhaps they were bargained with by a Chellish Summoner and fulfilled their terms via some loophole and now wander around
But as strictly LE solider like creatures what would they be doing in the Hinterlands?
??
- Huge Earth Elemental
Not sure why this would be wandering the countryside. Could just be a villager telling a story of a mountain that came to life
- 2 Flame Drakes
Something else that could be villager stories. Party may try and pursue them
(They could try and bully the party as they are apparently bullies but retreat when they don't die/run screaming from the first fire breath weapons)
- Spire Drake
Could appear and demand payment in magic for passage. Either drake fight would probably just me doing a few breath weapons and flying off to prove how my party actually can't deal with anything more than 30ft away very easily
- Lost Giant
This very much looks like it can be resolved out of combat. And should be a short one for a level 8 party anyway
- 2 Will o Wisp
As above could be story
- 3 Redcaps
No sure here. I am not clear why these guys wander the countryside. There is track record of Thrune's minions summoning evil fey...
- Bulette
These are aggressive so this would probably be a fight unless it was yet another tale of attacking travelers or villagers in the hinterlands
- Surprise Party
I'd quite like to run this
- 1d12 ogres
As mentioned above 1d12 ogres would do a pretty good job of destroying a village. Perhaps they could also already be dead to save the PCs pursuing them.
Take a look at the rural thread for additional ideas on flavor encounters on the trip.
Like others have said, I use random encounters as scenes more that encounters.
1) A banana merchant had a group of scarlet spiders come out of his merchandise and attack the market while they were there. It was a quick fight against spiders but served to show how cruel the dottari as they then charged the merchant with mint smuggling and tried seized his goods. I also wanted to add another scene that reinforced them becoming a hero of the common man.
2) A Zebub spotting them breaking curfew and flying way to report to let them know this is a surveillance state and to make them feel like it was increasingly likely that Thrune knew their identities.
3) Hearing a rumor that a craftsman that was taking the illegal rowboats has gone missing; this is a open ended plot hook I'm keeping for a rainy day and haven't decided where I'll tie it in.