Occultist Multiclassing / Focus Power Substitution / Focus Power Scaling

[Anthony Oxendine]

Hi, I am really excited to play an Occultist for an upcoming campaign but had a few questions for people more experienced with the class and system. I have done my best to search the forums for my questions but was unsuccessful.

1) I have had some issues in building my character because of the inherent MADness of a combat build. I like the idea of starting with 1 level of Inspired Blade Swashbuckler to allow me to start with Dex to damage as well as a few other situational abilities before moving to Occultist for all the remaining levels. Swashbuckler's full BAB means I'm never behind in my levels of Occultist and between the two classes all of my saves are boosted. Fort and Will are behind the standard Occultist by 1 at a few levels but Reflex is always 2 higher. My question is, is it worth it to have dex to damage, more balanced saves, and a few defensive abilities at the cost of a level of Occultist? My thought is that I can concentrate on Dex and Int more easily and that the Occultist gains spell levels so slowly that I might not notice the difference most of the time.

2) Spells can be switched 1-for-1 at a few levels. However, there is no indication that one can trade out Focus Powers as you gain levels and implements. Does anyone know if it is possible to trade out old focus powers at higher levels? For instance, I don't plan to take Abjuration until Occultist level 6 or 10 but the 1st level Abjuration focus powers are better than most of the other focus powers at that level. Would I be able to exchange the focus power I took at 1st for one of the Abjuration powers without having to sacrifice a higher level focus power choice?

3) The SRD says that you must be a certain level to take certain focus powers. It specifies Occultist level for the scaling of the power itself but does not specify character or class level when it comes to levels at which the power becomes available. Normally, you gain feats at the same rate as focus powers, but with 1 level of Swashbuckler my choices become staggered. Feats at odd levels, focus powers at even levels. That said, if I take Extra Focus power at Character Level 5 (which is Occultist Level 4), can I take the Mind Eye focus power? Technically, I qualify as being at 5th level but I am wondering if that is a misunderstanding and it was intended to mean that you can only choose a power when you have that many Occultist levels. My thought in assuming it's character level is that dipping Occultist at high levels for a better focus power isn't that effective because the power would be useless without more Occultist levels.

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to make sure I gave some clarity on what my questions are getting at. Thank you!

[Laegrim]

Hey Anthony, glad to see you are considering an occultist - love that class!

In response to your questions:
1) This will come down to what you, personally, are looking for from the build, but I wouldn't dip swashbuckler. First, Fort and Will are generally considered more important saves than Ref (losing a Fort or Will save means you are out of the often out of the fight, at best, while losing a Ref save generally means you take some damage), so penalizing those saves in favor of Ref doesn't sound like a winning proposition. In addition, unless you really wanted to go that direction for flavor, I'd recommend sticking with strength for attack and damage. Beyond better scaling with two handed weapons it's generally easier to add bonuses to strength than dexterity. If you are dead set on adding dexterity to damage I'd do it through a feat rather than a dip. Let me know if you'd like some sample builds.
2) There isn't any way specific to the Occultist - what focus powers and implements you choose you are stuck with. You might try checking out the retraining rules.
3) Yeah, unfortunately when an ability for a class lists a level requirement like that it means that it requires that many levels in that class - you do need 5 Occultist levels to qualify for Mind Eye. Swashbuckler levels don't count towards that requirement.

[Anthony Oxendine]

Laegrim wrote:

Hey Anthony, glad to see you are considering an occultist - love that class!

In response to your questions:
1) This will come down to what you, personally, are looking for from the build, but I wouldn't dip swashbuckler. First, Fort and Will are generally considered more important saves than Ref (losing a Fort or Will save means you are out of the often out of the fight, at best, while losing a Ref save generally means you take some damage), so penalizing those saves in favor of Ref doesn't sound like a winning proposition. In addition, unless you really wanted to go that direction for flavor, I'd recommend sticking with strength for attack and damage. Beyond better scaling with two handed weapons it's generally easier to add bonuses to strength than dexterity. If you are dead set on adding dexterity to damage I'd do it through a feat rather than a dip. Let me know if you'd like some sample builds.
2) There isn't any way specific to the Occultist - what focus powers and implements you choose you are stuck with. You might try checking out the retraining rules.
3) Yeah, unfortunately when an ability for a class lists a level requirement like that it means that it requires that many levels in that class - you do need 5 Occultist levels to qualify for Mind Eye. Swashbuckler levels don't count towards that requirement.

Thanks so much for the quick feedback! For #3, I had been reading the descriptions for the Implement Schools and it isn't specific there but they make it pretty clear under Focus Powers on the main class page that it is Occultist level. I saw that as soon as I finished submitting the post haha.

And I'd love to see some sample strength builds if you have them. I'd be more than happy to not have to multiclass but my DM prefers 15-point buy and I'm trying to have an 18 INT after racial modifiers. I was looking at the Elf FCB as well. I'd appreciate your thoughts!

[Laegrim]

This was fun, but 15 point buy does make things more difficult. Elves penalty to CON doesn’t help there either - I’d recommend half elf instead; you can still grab the elf favored class bonus, but don’t have a penalty to the stat that keeps you alive. This build has great attack and damage, especially with a round to buff, but AC is a weakness throughout your levels. The Abjuration base focus power definitely helps there with absorbing some damage.

Also, I’d think about using the Battle Host archetype. You’ll lose access to one implement, but some serious melee bonuses.

Half Elf:
Kindred Raised Trait (+2 Cha, +2 Str or Int)

15 Point Buy:
- I recommend this allotment for a melee char, and use it in the examples:
STR: 16 (14 + 2 Race) DEX: 10 CON: 14 INT: 16 WIS: 9 CHA: 9 (7 + 2 Race)
Level up bonuses go to STR
- But if you really want 18 Int here’s a sample point buy:
STR: 14 DEX: 10 CON: 14 INT: 18 (16 + 2 Race) WIS: 9 CHA: 9 (7 + 2 Race)

Traits:
Fate’s Favored (Find luck bonuses on items!), Reactionary

Favored Class Bonus:
Choose Elf (+1/2 Mental Focus Point) Each Level

1 Feat (Toughness), Implements (Abjuration, Transmutation), Focus Power (Transmutation - Size Alteration)
2 Implements (Panoply - Trappings of the Warrior)
3 Feat (Power Attack), Focus Power (TotW Panoply - Counterstrike)
5 Feat (Iron Will), Focus Power (Abjuration - Energy Shield)
6 Implements (Illusion)
7 Feat (Improved Initiative), Focus Power (Transmutation - Mind Over Gravity)
9 Feat (Extra Focus Power), Focus Powers (Transmutation - Telekinetic Mastery, Illusion - Shadow Beast)
10 Implements (Divination)
11 Feat (Extra Mental Focus), Focus Power (Divination - Danger Sight)
13 Feat (Heavy Armor Proficiency), Focus Power (Abjuration - Globe of Negation)
14 Implements (Conjuration)
15 Feat (Dimensional Agility), Focus Power (Conjuration - Side Step)
17 Feat (Dimensional Assault), Focus Power (Divination - Mind Eye)
18 Implements (Evocation)
19 Feat (Dimensional Dervish), Focus Power (Illusion - Mirage)

Spells Chosen
0 (T) Mending, (A) Resistance, (C) Create Water, (I) Ghost Sound, (D) Detect Magic, (E) Light
1 (T) Lead Blades, (A) Shield, (C) Mount, (I) Vanish, (D) Heightened Awareness, (E) Floating Disk
2 (T) Rope Trick, (A) Resist Energy, (C) Glitterdust, (I) Mirror Image, (D) Find Traps, (E) Shatter
3 (T) Haste, (A) Magic Circle Against Evil, (C) Phantom Steed, (I) Displacement, (D) Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, (E) Talismanic Implement
4 (T) Echolocation, (A) Freedom of Movement, (C) Dimension Door, (I) Greater Invisibility, (D) Arcane Eye, (E) Etheric Shards
5 (T) Overland Flight, (A) Greater Dispel Magic, (C) Teleport, (I) Persistent Image, (D) True Seeing, (E) Wall of Force
6 (T) Disintegrate, (A) Antimagic Field, (C) Heal, (I) Project Image, (D) Greater Scrying, (E) Contingency

Sample Stats at level 5, 10, 15:

@lvl 5, Gear: Greatsword +1, Chain Mail
10 Pts of Mental Focus (5 in Transmutation, 5 in Abjuration)
Abilities Active: Lead Blades, Size Alteration - Large, Shield
Attack: +10 Greatsword +1 (4d6 + 8)
AC: 18 (6 Armor + 4 Shield - 1 Size - 1 Dex)
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +1, Will +7

@lvl 10, Gear: Greatsword +2, +2 Chain Mail, +2 Dex Belt, +2 Int Headband, Cloak of Good Fortune
19 Pts of Mental Focus (6 in Transmutation, 6 in Abjuration, 4 Divination, 3 Illusion)
Abilities Active: Lead Blades, Legacy Weapon - Bane, Shield, Haste
Attack: +23/23/18 Greatsword +2 (3d6 + 13 + 2d6)
AC: 23 (8 Armor + 4 Shield + 1 Dodge)
Save: Fort +12, Ref +6, Will +11

@lvl 15, Gear: Greatsword +3, +3 Full Plate, +4 Dex Belt, +4 Int Headband, Cloak of Good Fortune, Luckstone, Wand of Heroism
29 Pts of Mental Focus (9 in Transmutation, 8 in Abjuration, 6 Divination, 3 Illusion, 3 Conjuration)
Abilities Active: Lead Blades, Legacy Weapon - Bane, Shield, Haste, Heroism
Attack: +32/32/28/24 Greatsword +3 (3d6 + 17 + 2d6)
AC: 29 (12 Armor + 4 Shield + 1 Dodge + 2 Dex)
Save: Fort +17, Ref +13, Will +16

[Anthony Oxendine]

Wow! I really appreciate the help. It sounds like my vision for the character wants to do too many things. I'll take a look at the battle host and probably use the build you suggest as a model for my character.

Thanks so much!