The first level technomancer spell Incompetence (Armory pg 157) makes the target lose proficiency with a class of weapon on a failed will save, If I were to target say "small arms" would they then lose longarm proficiency since small arm proficiency is a prerequisite? would they then also lose heavy weapon proficiency, weapon specialization, weapon focus etc.
A very good question. Temporary feats were a point of contention in PF1. However, I would probably say no.
Most characters get their proficiencies from their class, not the feats. Example, a Soldier with <13 Str still has Heavy Weapon Proficiency despite 13 Str being a prerequisite. So due to the spell specifying: "You cause all targets of this spell to lose proficiency with one class of weapons of your choice..." rather than removing their feat, I would go with a no.
Most enemies as well won't be carrying multiple classifications of weapon of the same category (melee vs ranged).
For NPCs, it's entirely a non-issue, since they don't have feat lists to begin with, so they can only take the non-proficiency penalty on weapons of the chosen category. If it was used against a PC, then I'd treat it the same way -- they still keep any other feats (including weapon specialization), just take the penalty to attack rolls. If there was an additional effect like losing damage bonus on the weapons, I think that's something that the spell would need to have explicitly stated in its description.
It definitely would not work against soldiers. You don't somehow not have longarm proficiency just because you lose small arms proficiency.
I would say BNW is totally correct about it not working on soldiers. If used on, say, an Envoy who took longarm proficiency, heavy weapon proficiency and versatile specialization as feats, it would be different.
The proficiency feats would become ineffective until the spell wore off, and they would have no specialization bonus damage with the weapons that they were not proficient wit from their class. They would still have small arm specialization damage, since it acts.like a feat when granted by the class, but is not a feat, and does not have a prerequisite to lose access to.
You could, of course, decide that this is too much for a 1st level debuff and houserule it to act dofferently, but that would be a house rule.
Against NPCs, they are not built using a feat chain, so that feat chain wouldn't be lost. Again, the GM could definitely decide to make the effects have parity to what would happen to our theoretical envoy, but that's also a house rule.
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Upon doing more digging, I think I've found an anwser in the begining of the feats chapter of the CRB. In the CRB pg 152 where it refers to prerequisites it says "a character can't use a feat if she loses a prerequisite, but she doesn't lose the feat itself." To me that means Incompetence if used to strip a character of small arms, would also make the character no longer have the prerequisite for long arms, but as they still have the long arms feat they would still have all the prerequisites for heavy weapons. It would take away specialization (small arms) but not specialization (long arms) or versatile specialization.
That rule was the basis of my reading.
Proficiency in small arms and long arms is a prerequisite for the Heavy Weapon Proficiency feat, and versatile specialization grants weapon specialization with weapons that you are proficient with. Thus, both would be lost for the duration, as the character is not proficient with those weapons, when the feats are offline.
A soldier doesn't just have the long arms proficiency feat. They are proficient with longarms. So they don't need to use the feat chain.
I am absolutely not disagreeing with that. I am saying that only in the case where you used proficiency feats, like my hypothetical envoy, do you get a big snowball effect where you lose additional abilities due to losing prerequisites.
I am absolutely not disagreeing with that. I am saying that only in the case where you used proficiency feats, like my hypothetical envoy, do you get a big snowball effect where you lose additional abilities due to losing prerequisites.
Personal call on it? I'd probably say no. Due to how NPCs and monsters work entirely different than players this is an instance that only penalizes players, and at that only players who take weapon proficiency feats or additional specializations.
So it would be a penalty for playing a specific way, and would essentially eliminate options for dealing with the spell on the player end. If it can only affect enemies one way (only giving a -4 penalty to attack essentially) it should probably only do that when used against the players as well. Goose and gander type of idea.
I think that would be a very fair and reasonable houseule, but I think that it is an answer to the question "What should the rule be?" rather than an answer to "What is the rule?"
I think that would be a very fair and reasonable houseule, but I think that it is an answer to the question "What should the rule be?" rather than an answer to "What is the rule?"
True. I do agree it is a patch solution.
However, with the current state of FAQs and Erratas for Starfinder, in that we have gone seven months without despite multiple known issues, and the increased focus Paizo seems to have over the Pathfinder Playtest compared to Starfinder as a whole, our patch solutions are all we have. The best we can do as a community is try to come to a consensus on our own to help new players to the system, and perhaps end up influencing what those corrections will be when we finally get them.
Most characters get their proficiencies from their class, not the feats. Example, a Soldier with <13 Str still has Heavy Weapon Proficiency despite 13 Str being a prerequisite. So due to the spell specifying: "You cause all targets of this spell to lose proficiency with one class of weapons of your choice..." rather than removing their feat, I would go with a no.
I'd align with this one. It does not remove a feat, it just takes your proficiency away, regardless of where the proficiency came from. So it does not affect any feats, you just don't remember how to use the weapons in question.