Rate My Build: Operative Weapon Solarian


Advice


With my main Society character starting to get up in levels, I've been thinking about some other characters to branch out with, and this is one of them! So with that in mind, I would like some feedback on how viable this would be and how it could possibly be improved while keeping true to the concept on a fleet-footed, fiery swordsman! So without further ado...

Race:
Human

Theme:
Tempered Pilgrim

Equipment:
1 Operative Melee Weapon
1 Small Arm
Light Armor

Stats:
Str: 10
Dex: 18 (Race +2)
Con: 10
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 15 (Theme +1)

Skills:
Bluff (Class)
Diplomacy (Class)
Acrobatics (Class)
Sense Motive (Class)
Culture (Class)

Feats:
Lv. 1: Close Combat, Step Up
Lv. 3: Multi-Weapon Fighting
Lv. 5: Enhanced Resistance (Kinetic)
Lv. 7: Step Up and Strike
Lv. 9: Deflect Projectiles
Lv. 11: Deadly Aim
Lv. 13: Penetrating Attack

Solarian Class Features:
Lv. 1: Skill Adept (Bluff, Culture), Solar Manifestation (Solar Armor), Stellar Revelation (Black Hole, Supernova)
Lv. 2: Stellar Revelation (Stellar Rush)
Lv. 3: Sidereal Influence (Sense Motive, Diplomacy), Weapon Specialization
Lv. 4: Stellar Revelation (Plasma Sheath)
Lv. 6: Stellar Revelation (Defy Gravity)
Lv. 7: Flashing Strikes
Lv. 8: Stellar Revelation (Reflection)
Lv. 9: Zenith Revelation (Solar Acceleration, Wormholes)
Lv. 10: Stellar Revelation (Glow of Life)
Lv. 11: Sidereal Influence (Bluff, Culture)
Lv. 12: Stellar Revelation (Soul Furnace)
Lv. 13: Solarian's Onslaught

Stat Gains:
Lv. 5: +1 Dex, +2 Str/Wis/Cha
Lv. 10: +1 Dex/Cha, +2 Str/Wis

Augmentations:
Lv. 2: Synaptic Accelerators Mk 1 (Str +2)
Lv. 6: Synaptic Accelerators Mk 2 (Str +2), Synaptic Accelerators Mk 1 (Dex +2)
Lv. 13: Synaptic Accelerators Mk 3 (Str +2), Synaptic Accelerators Mk 2 (Dex +2), Synaptic Accelerators Mk 1 (Cha +2)

Note: I am well aware that the damage output is suboptimal. That's OK. I still have my high AC, mobility, and social encounter utility. I just wonder if the damage output I do have will still be competent, considering the revelations, stat gains, and augmentations I plan on taking, and if it can be improved. Thanks in advance for all your help!


Unless I missed something, Solarian weapons are not operative weapons, so you won't get your dex bonus to hit with your solar sword either, so you're in for a rough ride. It seems to me you've built a ranged solarian for use in melee combat... Conceptually, I see the interesting idea and you could of course make it work, but you will certainly feel underwhelming in the early levels until you can get your strength up and pack some of those feats in.

Operative and small arms weapons are pretty low-yield. They're great for Operatives when they can start making 4 attacks a round or get huge damage bonuses for trick attack (especially around level 7 when they can basically land trick attacks on most common foes without actually having to roll). For other characters though, operative weapons especially, and small arms in general represent kind of a nerf. You're typically better off with advance melee or longarms instead. (two-handed adv melee weapons have some of the best DPR in the game)

I'm sure you're in love with the fire sword, but to be honest, for this character... I'd go armor instead and let a plasma sword, or any sword with flaming fusion, fill your hankering for a lightsaber. Because of the dex bonus to-hit with operative weapons, you'll probably end up using those more than your solar sword anyway, so there's not real use in having it over the armor. Fire sword-like weapons and/or fusions won't come available for you until like level 5 or so, so if you're starting at level 1, make obtaining a suitable sword your characters personal mission.


Kvetchus wrote:

Unless I missed something, Solarian weapons are not operative weapons, so you won't get your dex bonus to hit with your solar sword either, so you're in for a rough ride. It seems to me you've built a ranged solarian for use in melee combat... Conceptually, I see the interesting idea and you could of course make it work, but you will certainly feel underwhelming in the early levels until you can get your strength up and pack some of those feats in.

Operative and small arms weapons are pretty low-yield. They're great for Operatives when they can start making 4 attacks a round or get huge damage bonuses for trick attack (especially around level 7 when they can basically land trick attacks on most common foes without actually having to roll). For other characters though, operative weapons especially, and small arms in general represent kind of a nerf. You're typically better off with advance melee or longarms instead. (two-handed adv melee weapons have some of the best DPR in the game)

I'm sure you're in love with the fire sword, but to be honest, for this character... I'd go armor instead and let a plasma sword, or any sword with flaming fusion, fill your hankering for a lightsaber. Because of the dex bonus to-hit with operative weapons, you'll probably end up using those more than your solar sword anyway, so there's not real use in having it over the armor. Fire sword-like weapons and/or fusions won't come available for you until like level 5 or so, so if you're starting at level 1, make obtaining a suitable sword your characters personal mission.

First off, thanks for the in-depth response! Now let's get to it! I probably should've made this clearer at the beginning, but I actually DID go armor with this one! The fire part will actually come from the Plasma Sheath revelation, though that doesn't really come online till Level 4. ...Which does bring up another point you made, early level functionality. At higher levels, the damage seems to be about on par with more optimal Strength builds, since Deadly Aim and Plasma Sheath would help bridge the damage gap, and I'd actually have a decent Str score by that point. But early levels, especially 1-3, do seem pretty painful. I'd pretty much have to spam Stellar Rush each turn to do decent damage and hope to land the bull rush so I don't eat an AoO each time after first. And that's assuming the terrain would even let me. Are they any ways you can think of to help with those early levels?


One thought that occurs to me: Consider the Astrazoan race rather than human:
https://glasstopgames.com/sfrpg/rules/race/astrazoan.html

They have some interesting out-of-combat abilities (shapechanging - meaning you can pretend your a human anyway) and they can also regain hitpoints at the same time as they regain stamina (a 10 minute rest to regain stamin gains you HP as if you had a full night's rest, 1x per day). It gives a +2 to Dex and Cha, though a -2 to Con, which will only cost you a single stamina point. The other sacrifice would be an extra 1st level feat.

On feats... unless your built concept demands it, I wouldn't use a feat on multi-weapon fighting. You can always fight multi-weapon, you just take a -4 on the attack roll. The feat drops that to a -3, but only if using 2 operative or small arms. Early on that extra point to hit *might* be important, but honestly.... not really. And once you're higher level, it won't make much difference. I would opt instead for two adv. melee, or possibly even better: 1 small arm in one hand, and an advance melee in the other. That's if you really don't want to go with two-handed weapons. Remember, though, if you're dual-weilding and need to reload you'll need to spend a round to sheath, reload, then draw (provided your GM tracks ammo, anyway).

A couple players in my group were keen on multi-weapon fighting too, but early on the -3 or -4 is still pretty significant, so they stopped doing it. Since that was the groups first place through, we decided to allow everyone unlimited reworks until level 5 - everyone dropped the multi-weapon feat that had it and no one in the group has bothered dual-wielding since.

Anyway, if you drop the multi-weapon feat, the loss of that racial feat doesn't matter so you get Dex and Cha boost, lose 1 hit point, and gain a bunch of cool racial features and STILL get to play a "human" character if you want.


At level 3, I'd take Weapon Focus: Basic Melee instead of Multi-weapon fighting. Its +1 to hit all the time versus +1 to hit only when you attack with 2 weapons. Its equal or better in all situations.

Also, if you're Dex based, why are you prioritizing the Strength augmentation? +1 to hit/AC is probably worth more than +1 to damage. If you were strength melee based, then its a harder call at +1 to AC vs +1 to hit/+1 damage.

The issue with Operative weapons is that you do ~40% less damage in this particular build. They're balanced around operatives, not other classes.

Consider at level 11, Strength based (18 Str+4 Augment, 18 Dex+2 Augment) vs Dex Operative (20 Dex+2 Augment, 14 Str+4 Augment)

Ultrathin Curve Blade is:
+18 to hit, 3d10+11 (spec) + 6 (Str) + 5 (Plasma sheath) = 38.5 avg

Ultrathin Dagger is:
+18 to hit, 4d4+5 (spec)+ 5 (Plasma Sheath) + 4 (Str) = 24 avg

Even with your stats at 11, an Ultrathin Curve Blade is:

+16 to hit, 3d10+11 (spec) + 4 (str) + 5 (Plasma sheath) = 36.5 avg

Even with a 10% accuracy penalty, assuming 50/50 hit odds normally, you still are expected to do more damage with an advanced melee weapon (36.5 * 0.8 = 29.2) on average.

Have you considered a 14 Str/14 Dex/15 Cha advanced melee focused build? You trade some accuracy and AC for damage output. If you put your primary augmentation into Dex instead of strength, you even wind up with better end stats (18 Str +2/Dex 18+4 vs 14 Str+4/Dex 20+2).

Late game (10-12th level), it ends up in a similar place Dex-wise, but your feat investment is in advanced melee instead of operative weapons. Alternatively, keep your augmentation focus in strength, and end around 18+4 Strength (only -1 to hit/damage compared to a maximum strength build).

On the other hand, your the higher Dex build will have better AC and saves, and gunnery starship combat.


Kvetchus wrote:

One thought that occurs to me: Consider the Astrazoan race rather than human:

https://glasstopgames.com/sfrpg/rules/race/astrazoan.html

They have some interesting out-of-combat abilities (shapechanging - meaning you can pretend your a human anyway) and they can also regain hitpoints at the same time as they regain stamina (a 10 minute rest to regain stamin gains you HP as if you had a full night's rest, 1x per day). It gives a +2 to Dex and Cha, though a -2 to Con, which will only cost you a single stamina point. The other sacrifice would be an extra 1st level feat.

On feats... unless your built concept demands it, I wouldn't use a feat on multi-weapon fighting. You can always fight multi-weapon, you just take a -4 on the attack roll. The feat drops that to a -3, but only if using 2 operative or small arms. Early on that extra point to hit *might* be important, but honestly.... not really. And once you're higher level, it won't make much difference. I would opt instead for two adv. melee, or possibly even better: 1 small arm in one hand, and an advance melee in the other. That's if you really don't want to go with two-handed weapons. Remember, though, if you're dual-weilding and need to reload you'll need to spend a round to sheath, reload, then draw (provided your GM tracks ammo, anyway).

A couple players in my group were keen on multi-weapon fighting too, but early on the -3 or -4 is still pretty significant, so they stopped doing it. Since that was the groups first place through, we decided to allow everyone unlimited reworks until level 5 - everyone dropped the multi-weapon feat that had it and no one in the group has bothered dual-wielding since.

Anyway, if you drop the multi-weapon feat, the loss of that racial feat doesn't matter so you get Dex and Cha boost, lose 1 hit point, and gain a bunch of cool racial features and STILL get to play a "human" character if you want.

That sounds like an awesome idea! ...Only problem is that human is actually pretty core to the concept, given this character is a sort of reflavored rebuild of a character I made way back. On top of that, I exclusively play Society at the moment, and I think Astrazoans are locked behind a race boon I don't currently have. That said, I really love the idea.

You make a fair point with Multi-Weapon Fighting, but I'm not sure what to replace it with to improve my damage output. (I mainly went with it because my current Society character is a Blitz Soldier, but only 14 Strength, so he has some trouble hitting things. XD) I actually don't mind two-handed weapons and can roll with one of those, so long as it's a blade of some sort. However, given we have no two-handed operative weapons, I'd only be able to really make use of one until around Lv. 6, when my Strength score is halfway decent.


Ah, Society... yeah, I'm not familiar with that, I've never played any society games so you maybe very well be right.

Hiruma Kai made a good point on weapon focus. For characters that are combat focued, I look to get Versatile Focus (which requires Weapon Focus in any weapon first) since it give you a +1 to hit with every weapon you're proficient with. If you multiclass (which I don't typically recommend unless you know exactly why you're doing it and what you're giving up for it) OR if you pick up any weapon profiencies beyond your class's presets then you should also pick up versatile specialization to give you the bonus to damage (your level, or 1/2 your level for small arms and oper weapons).

If you're character is less focused on combat, or has other combat options (spells maybe, or a Grenade tossing Envoy for example) then that's less of an issue and you can opt for some other utility feats - otherwise, I would look to get your core abilities nailed down early, and look at the other feats later on.

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