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WIZARDS, for making PAIZO my #1 Choice for fantasy role-play game materials.
Tank-You Wizards for sufficiently screwing with 3PPs enough that your biggest champion can no longer do any meaningful business with you. For those of us who have loved Necromancer Games' products in the past, and still do, let us welcome Clark Peterson even stronger now with the v.3.5/Pathfinder fold. I cannot wait to see what a renewed partnership with PAIZO brings!
After reading today's post on Grognardia I felt compelled to say that while I love this hobby, I loathe what Wizards has done to the game through and through.
Let's review:
>Non renewed PAIZO Dungeon mag and Dragon mag license with relative short notice, forcing Lisa, Erik et.al. to reinvent PAZIOs business.
>Announce/intimate/semi-promise many things at the last GenCon that were not delivered.
>Prematurely released a shoddy edition that immediately has errata. Demonstrates lack of coherency and respect for 30+ years of tradition, abandoned sacred cows, gave tieflings butts for heads, etc.
>Released an iron-clad GSL after delaying so long to ensure 3PPs could not keep their business viable.
>Pulled .pdfs from availability for purchase. Suddenly with less than 3 hours notice to the distributors, and no notice to the community.
>Negatively treated long-time supporters of the game; alienating many of us.
>Locked down content on their Web site, originally charging prices that even Wired magazine had to laugh at (and not delivering full functionality based on previous claims)
>Others ???
What bothered me about Clark's post was his "perhaps only a few Pathfinder print products." What does his unhappiness with Wotc/GSL have to do with "We are still in contact with Paizo and have a good relationship there"? I guess I was hoping for more than "only a few Pf print products". Was I pitching my tent below a Rock Candy Mountain beside the whiskey lake? If "Necro is not folding," then why the move toward the pdf market and away from print (and Pathfinder?)?
Lord Okoya: I appreciate your attitude, but you must have much deeper pockets than my social circle!
Not trying to rain on your hate parade, but I have a couple questions:
>Non renewed PAIZO Dungeon mag and Dragon mag license with relative short notice, forcing Lisa, Erik et.al. to reinvent PAZIOs business.
I thought the Paizo staff said multiple times that not only were they given ample notice, but they were given extra time in order to finish up the Savage Tide. Why are you saying this?
>Negatively treated long-time supporters of the game; alienating many of us.
How did they negatively treat you? I escaped the edition wars with two great games and no wounds. The only negative treatment I've seen has been player vs. player.
Yay! The embers still burn. IBTL
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How long do you think it will be before Paizo can make a bid to buy the rights to Dungeons and Dragons away from WOTC and restore D&D's good name?
Maybe we can start a war chest to help out? :)
You mean Hasbro. And from what I understand they are very much a 'we'll just take our ball and go home' kind of company. No, I fear if Hasbro/WotC can't make Dungeons & Dragons a winner they will choose to shelf the IP and let it stagnate rather than sell it to someone else. I'm SO glad that those in power at the time gave us the OGL.
>Negatively treated long-time supporters of the game; alienating many of us.How did they negatively treat you? I escaped the edition wars with two great games and no wounds. The only negative treatment I've seen has been player vs. player.
I'm going to preface this by stating I'm not trying to convince you of the truth of the following statements, but try to illustrate how others feel. (Not necessarily Pax).
WotC, perhaps Hasbro, has had a short - but prominent - history of "holding hostage," and "ransoming," products people want for products they want to sell.
Star Wars: No matter what you may think of the system, at one point the company line was something like: "We'll hold off on releasing game supplements until we see how the miniatures sell."
D&D: Oddly enough, when that Star Wars action worked out, they did the same thing - only more subtly - with 3.5. And they seem to have gone out of their way to incorporate the "miniatures model" with 4th.
Now, depending on your particular sensibilities, this may come off as "marketing strategy," or as "product terrorism."
But for several people I am familiar with, it was enough to take WotC out of the market for them.
What bothered me about Clark's post was his "perhaps only a few Pathfinder print products." What does his unhappiness with Wotc/GSL have to do with "We are still in contact with Paizo and have a good relationship there"? I guess I was hoping for more than "only a few Pf print products". Was I pitching my tent below a Rock Candy Mountain beside the whiskey lake? If "Necro is not folding," then why the move toward the pdf market and away from print (and Pathfinder?)?
Lord Okoya: I appreciate your attitude, but you must have much deeper pockets than my social circle!
Clark has always seen Necromancer as the modern-day Judges Guild and wants to support the latest edition of D&D....even if it's 4E.
Edit - he probably wouldn't even be looking at Pathfinder if Paizo wasn't involved.
Pax. Let it go. This is ridiculous.
IBTL
Huh?
:gracefully withdraws from the thread:
Clark has always seen Necromancer as the modern-day Judges Guild and wants to support the latest edition of D&D....even if it's 4E.What bothered me about Clark's post was his "perhaps only a few Pathfinder print products." What does his unhappiness with Wotc/GSL have to do with "We are still in contact with Paizo and have a good relationship there"? I guess I was hoping for more than "only a few Pf print products". Was I pitching my tent below a Rock Candy Mountain beside the whiskey lake? If "Necro is not folding," then why the move toward the pdf market and away from print (and Pathfinder?)?
Lord Okoya: I appreciate your attitude, but you must have much deeper pockets than my social circle!
Sure, but if that's not going to work out, then what? This seems confused floundering to me, I'm just not sure if the confusion lies in the reality or in the wording of posts. (Or maybe my reading of them.)
IBTLHuh?
In Before The Lock.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I can't put my finger on the reason, but I find that I don't have anywhere near the appetite for 3pp's for 4e as I did for 3e. Maybe it's because the volume of 4e material from WotC is already greater than my ability to ingest it. Maybe it's because there isn't the strong focus on simulation, and therefore less of a need for niche driven books with crunchy rules about particular topics. I already feel overwhlemed with 4e material and unable to digest everything, and that's just as a result of WotC's output.
In general, I agree with Clarke's sentiment. Even though I like 4e, even though I wanted a new edition of D&D, I don't love 4e like I loved 3e. I do find myself loving PFRPG though, even as I don't have an active intent to play it. I think it's the crunchiness and complexity of the system, the way it's filled with little bells and whistles that are easy to grock and absorb for me. I find so much of 4e to be bland, particularly in the way that the game mechanics are so dissociated from the flavor.
That being said, I do love a lot of 4e's features. It seems like a lot of my reaction is to the packaging and epic/action movie flavor.
Sure, but it that's not going to work out, then what? This seems confused floundering to me, I'm just not sure if the confusion lies in the reality or in the wording of posts. (Or maybe my reading of them.)Clark has always seen Necromancer as the modern-day Judges Guild and wants to support the latest edition of D&D....even if it's 4E.What bothered me about Clark's post was his "perhaps only a few Pathfinder print products." What does his unhappiness with Wotc/GSL have to do with "We are still in contact with Paizo and have a good relationship there"? I guess I was hoping for more than "only a few Pf print products". Was I pitching my tent below a Rock Candy Mountain beside the whiskey lake? If "Necro is not folding," then why the move toward the pdf market and away from print (and Pathfinder?)?
Lord Okoya: I appreciate your attitude, but you must have much deeper pockets than my social circle!
I took his post to be more of a "we're moving away from print, because it has become an unstable market. We are looking into other processes including print on demand."
But I've no real insight, so it is only a guess.
So...to paraphrase you, Sebastian, 4e has lessened your appetite for the game. It's like an rpg-suppressant?
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Web-ese for "In Before The Lock"... anticipating a trollish firefight and just wanting to be in the scrum before moderators have to lock the thread down hard.IBTLHuh?
I'm of the opinion that a thread or two like this is probably a good idea, provided, however, that those who complain about 4e threadcrapping can keep from prying in here to rebut and dispute every statement about 4e/WotC that is made. I'd rather have those who dislike 4e and WotC to have a good ranting thread of their own than barge in on random 4e threads with such rants.
Now all I have to do is not be the one to make such a rebuttal...
You did it!
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This does not have to degenerate into an "edition war" (and is absolutely not an "edition" issue for me at least).
Pax did not mention anything specifically about 4E versus 3.X in his post. Personal or otherwise.
He merely commented on what he felt were the highly dubious and negatively received business practices (by some members of the community) surrounding a highly loved IP.
It is in this vein that I likewise responded.
The problem I see is that this opened with a lot of obvious previous resentment. If someone disagrees with previous issues, it will likely polarize them where they may have been willing to concede the current issue.
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I can't put my finger on the reason, but I find that I don't have anywhere near the appetite for 3pp's for 4e as I did for 3e. Maybe it's because the volume of 4e material from WotC is already greater than my ability to ingest it. Maybe it's because there isn't the strong focus on simulation, and therefore less of a need for niche driven books with crunchy rules about particular topics. I already feel overwhlemed with 4e material and unable to digest everything, and that's just as a result of WotC's output.
In general, I agree with Clarke's sentiment. Even though I like 4e, even though I wanted a new edition of D&D, I don't love 4e like I loved 3e. I do find myself loving PFRPG though, even as I don't have an active intent to play it. I think it's the crunchiness and complexity of the system, the way it's filled with little bells and whistles that are easy to grock and absorb for me. I find so much of 4e to be bland, particularly in the way that the game mechanics are so dissociated from the flavor.
That being said, I do love a lot of 4e's features. It seems like a lot of my reaction is to the packaging and epic/action movie flavor.
I had never heard it put this way before, thanks. Very insightful.
I'm not a 4E fan, but if I wanted cinematic style fantasy roleplay, I would be. From what I have observed, it seems to do this style of play very well.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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The problem I see is that this opened with a lot of obvious previous resentment. If someone disagrees with previous issues, it will likely polarize them where they may have been willing to concede the current issue.
I agree, but those resentments are shared, and people should be able to express them without getting attacked. In Sebastian's magical ideal world, where everyone has a pony avatar and s!*$ is rainbow colored and tastes like chocolate, we could begin healing the edition rift by being more thick-skinned and respectful of different poster's opinions. Maybe it's the paint fumes in my office, but I'm feeling very concilatory today. I don't want to fight another edition war, I don't want to invade Pax's thread to start another edition war (particularly since, as far as I've seen, he's been respectful of and avoiding the 4e threads), and I hope that everyone can just be adult and ignore this thread (or a particular post) if they think it goes too far.
And, I'll stop meta-posting now too. That drives me crazy as well. I just hope we can set a tone in the thread that's not angry and confrontational and let people criticize (or vent) who want to criticize (or vent). I'd prefer mutual respect over absolute vindication, and hopefully that's what we can achieve.
Director of Sales
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Web-ese for "In Before The Lock"... anticipating a trollish firefight and just wanting to be in the scrum before moderators have to lock the thread down hard.IBTLHuh?I'm of the opinion that a thread or two like this is probably a good idea, provided, however, that those who complain about 4e threadcrapping can keep from prying in here to rebut and dispute every statement about 4e/WotC that is made. I'd rather have those who dislike 4e and WotC to have a good ranting thread of their own than barge in on random 4e threads with such rants.
Now all I have to do is not be the one to make such a rebuttal...
I actually agree with this sentiment (although I probably would have phrased it a little differently), to a point.
Let's all play nice and not get all fighty, and there will be no Lock to be In Before.
Thanks!
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With the ending of Living Greyhawk and the current direction the RPGA is going in presently I certainly do feel hurt and abandoned.
I was very excited about 4th edition, a new edition of the game that I could get into at the ground floor and enjoy for years to come and it didn't even begin to live up to my expectations for it.
We played for months and every time it got more obvious that it wasn't going to meet our needs. Every book WotC put out didn't help out our opinions of things either. Just more powers, more ways of giving people a -2 or doing 2 or 3[W] damage. Nothing new or inspired.
The only hope we had for the game at all was with Third Party Publishers to help give the game some spark or something resembling an Role-playing Game. And now this?
Well that's the end of it. The books are getting sold this weekend. We're out.
The funny thought I was having, Pax, was this: It took the combination of OGL and 4e (plus its associated changes) to bring about the current situation with Paizo/Pathfinder. Thus half of the equation in giving me what I love involved the necessity of what I emphatically did not want (edition change). So in an odd way, thanks, Wizards.
ADD: WOW. Sebastian's meta-posting is getting to me. Healing rainbows...chocolate poo...God help me, am I beginning to love the PONY?!
Pax. Let it go. This is ridiculous.
Does not matter whether or not you or I think its ridiculous or not. Not our place to follow people around the 3.5 forums monitoring them to make sure that they always say nice things about 4E, Wizards of the Coast or any other topic. That's threadcrapping and trolling and if we don't want it on the 4E boards then we should make sure we don't engage in it on the rest of the forums.
I'm with Pax. From where I sit - and it is a LOOOOOOOONG way from the west coast - Hasbro treated the D&D community as an unfortunate side-effect of the existence of the property, rather than as the reason for the property's existence. In my opinion, there was no need for a new edition other than to sell core rulebooks. I didn't like the effective cancellation of Dragon and Dungeon magazines. I didn't like the languishing of the SRD - it seemed once it was in place, virtually nothing was added and certainly Wizards (or was it Hasbro) wasn't going to make anything OGC, even tho it would have made sense for a *lot* of mechanics to have been added. I didn't like what I saw as power-creep in official expansion books. I didn't like what I saw as a lack of ... internal consistency or verification or interoperability between the options presented in later books. I didn't like the lack of support for the Warlock in later books. (gotcha - but it is an illustration of a point) It got to the point it seemed as if Hasbro/WotC was almost just throwing stuff out there, expecting us to buy everything because it was D&D. And I sure didn't like hearing WotC hadn't sent Paizo a copy of the 4ed SRD (or whatever they called it) early, so as to have Paizo's support in place - seems like other 3PP's got copies, why not Paizo? (again, this is appearances from where I sit and I don't generally need to know the details) All in all, it just flat looked like WotC/Hasbro ended up deliberately shunning part of their support group that had literally been there for years. Why would I want to do business like that?
But that's done and gone. We have the SRD, we have the OGL, we have 3PP like, say, Paizo who are run by folks that seem to understand the customers drive their business, even if they know they won't be able to please everyone every time.
I don't wish ill upon 4ed, because it *is* D&D. I have friends who love it, because it plays more like a high-speed video game than does 3.5. Of course, they still play fast and loose with the rules. More power to them - it isn't *my* style. I've played a lot of different rpg systems in my days of rolling dice and so far 3.5 has been the most enjoyable from a system standpoint. I'm glad it was produced, even tho it isn't perfect. But it *is* adjustable to fit what I want from a system.
So... I'm off to write my own niche 3.5 OGL product, one that may even be compatible with Pathfinder and maybe add my own tiny nuance to the giant...
How long do you think it will be before Paizo can make a bid to buy the rights to Dungeons and Dragons away from WOTC and restore D&D's good name?
Maybe we can start a war chest to help out? :)
Unfortunately, Hasbro is pretty well-known for never selling intellectual property. They have a record of letting properties lie dormant for years rather than selling them...
I don't think I was threadcrapping. Forgive me if it seemed that way. I'm not here trying to convince anybody to play the game I play, or even to defend it. I was just asking a couple of questions I thought were reasonable. If I cross any lines feel free to flag me.
As to the first question, I still don't know why Pax is saying that, when the Paizo staff has stated it wasn't the case multiple times.
The second might require more exposition, and again, I'm not trying to defend, just understand. When the first previews of 4E started coming out I was initially put-off by them. They were changing stuff I didn't want changed, but it didn't upset me or fill with anger. I just figured I wouldn't be playing 4E. Honestly, I have every 3.x book produced by WotC, and while shiny new stuff is nice, I could game for years just on that and be content. In fact some of the people here seem miffed that WotC put out so many 3.x books. Either way, at no point was I po'ed at the prospect of never having another new WotC offical 3.x product, especially with the iron-clad OGL allowing 3pp.
WotC is a company owned by another, bigger company. As such they need to make money. That means putting out games. WotC has put out a lot of games that I haven't bought, but I'm not angered by the existence of any of them. So, why would I be angry if I hadn't bought 4E? I used to buy D&D minis. Did the production of Heroscape or Dreamblade rile me up? Nope. They changed the sale format of D&D minis to one I find unfavorable, that didn't rile me up either. I just don't buy boosters anymore.
What I'm trying to say is, WotC makes choices that they think (right or wrong) are best for WotC. And while those choices may affect my purchasing habbits, why would those choices make me angry? Even more so, why would they make you angry, especially when there are top notch companies like Paizo filling in any void WotC may have left when they withdrew support of 3.x? So, again, how did they mistreat you?
I'm of the opinion that a thread or two like this is probably a good idea, provided, however, that those who complain about 4e threadcrapping can keep from prying in here to rebut and dispute every statement about 4e/WotC that is made. I'd rather have those who dislike 4e and WotC to have a good ranting thread of their own than barge in on random 4e threads with such rants.
Now all I have to do is not be the one to make such a rebuttal...
I completely agree. Even being one of the people who complain about 4e threadcrapping, I can see that this isn't a threadcrap at all, because it isn't dumped into an existing 4E thread (or even posted on the 4E forum). In fact, venting is the point of this thread.
Carry on. ;-)
Disappointment with WOTC does not equal criticism of 4E.
It sure begets like all hell though, eh?
So, again, how did they [WotC] mistreat you?
Hmmm. My annoyance with them largely (but not exclusively) stems from watching them say one thing, then do another. From the vaporware gametable, to the "cup of coffee priced" PDFs (or any PDFs at all, for that matter), to the tardy and overly restrictive GSL, WotC has established a pattern of not living up to their promises. I don't know if I would characterize that as "mistreating" me, but I do know that it means I choose to no longer do business with them in spite of the fact that I really dig the design (if not the "implementation") of 4th edition.
Hmmm. My annoyance with them largely (but not exclusively) stems from watching them say one thing, then do another. From the vaporware gametable, to the "cup of coffee priced" PDFs (or any PDFs at all, for that matter), to the tardy and overly restrictive GSL, WotC has established a pattern of not living up to their promises. I don't know if I would characterize that as "mistreating" me, but I do know that it means I choose to no longer do business with them in spite of the fact that I really dig the design (if not the "implementation") of 4th edition.
I've seen various excuses for a bunch of that stuff, but I'm not a sales person for WotC or their lawyer, so I'm not going to bother. However, you kind of highlight my point. I would never suggest you buy a product you don't like or buy from a company you don't like. That aside, I also haven't seen you pitching fits or trying to bring down the establishment. It seems like your handling things in a manner similiar to myself: That sucks, oh well, moving on.
I want to know where the hate comes from.
EDIT:When did the actions of one company become a personal slight against you?
I am not happy with some of the tactics WotC used during the run up to 4th edition. Nor am I particularly happy with what I've seen with 4th edition. I do not let either of these things stop me from being a fan of Star Wars Saga (or buying the products). I also do not think that 4th edition is necessarily a bad game. (It is not).
In fact I have to praise 4th Ed. for facilitating casual play. Which from what I can tell, it does better than 3rd edition ever could (or other editions of the game). It's for this reason alone that I may consider picking up a copy of the core (the original 3) and some of the modules. I have nephews who used to play when they were younger, but are now young men with little interest in being involved with a detailed, dedicated campaign. With 4th edition I could run a casual game for them or even an impromptu game, which is something that I would have a difficult time doing with 3rd ed.
With that said. 4th isn't my preferred game. I was not happy with most of the things said and released prior to the release of 4th edition. I'm not happy about the sacred cows that were removed from the game. I'm not happy about Forgotten Realms (though happy to see they have left Eberron intact). I don't like a lot of stuff about 4th edition. But I can't criticize anybody for enjoying the game. I also think that folks going into the 4th edition boards and trying to sway people away from playing 4th edition (or just threadcrapping in general)are not helping our hobby. As I stated above, it does facilitate casual play, which is something this hobby desperately needs.
I've seen various excuses for a bunch of that stuff, but I'm not a sales person for WotC or their lawyer, so I'm not going to bother. However, you kind of highlight my point. I would never suggest you buy a product you don't like or buy from a company you don't like. That aside, I also haven't seen you pitching fits or trying to bring down the establishment. It seems like your handling things in a manner similiar to myself: That sucks, oh well, moving on.I want to know where the hate comes from.
EDIT:When did the actions of one company become a personal slight against you?
Oh, I've had my moments...trust me. :)
I believe my anger largely stems from feeling lied to. It doesn't matter whether the lies were personal, spiteful, or even intentional; I'm just tired of doing business with an entity that doesn't seem to value integrity.
I do get that corporations exist (and are obligated) to maximize profit, though I often wonder if perhaps the price isn't a tad too high (but that's really a whole other thread).
BTW, is "tank" a hot new way to spell "thank" on the Interwebz? :D
Thank you WotC for producing my prefered edition (3.5). Due to your good work, I now have enough gaming products (both official and 3PP) to keep me with material till ... well, forever. There is not enough gaming time to actually play all of the material I now own. Thank for maintaining the 3.5 SRD on your site as well as most of the 3.5 articles as well. While I am not changing editions to your current product or any other company's game system, I truly appreciate all you have done. I will continue to purchase miniatures (both D&D and Star Wars) that are reasonable quality, price, and that I can see myself using.
EDIT:When did the actions of one company become a personal slight against you?
Hey, Ghettowedge. Myself, I'm trying to disassociate myself (internally) from the anger side of this. But one doesn't have to take the actions of company to be a "personal slight" and yet be effected by them personally. When I look at Exxon, for example, and all their post-Valdez shenanigans, it looks like a company who, if I couldn't change their behavior, I'd be interested in "bringing them down" if there were a group of people banding together to do so through boycott and other legal means. Now, I'm not interested in dealing with the moral ranking of companies' behavior, but in principle, what's wrong with a group of customers resorting to demonstrations of their unhappiness or efforts to (legally) bring down what they cannot change? Now myself, I generally like to avoid demonstrations, so I understand if you don't care for them in any situation, but the anger behind them and its persistence in various actions do seem understandable to me.
EDIT:When did the actions of one company become a personal slight against you?Hey, Ghettowedge. Myself, I'm trying to disassociate myself (internally) from the anger side of this. But one doesn't have to take the actions of company to be a "personal slight" and yet be effected by them personally. When I look at Exxon, for example, and all their post-Valdez shenanigans, it looks like a company who, if I couldn't change their behavior, I'd be interested in "bringing them down" if there were a group of people banding together to do so through boycott and other legal means. Now, I'm not interested in dealing with the moral ranking of companies' behavior, but in principle, what's wrong with a group of customers resorting to demonstrations of their unhappiness or efforts to (legally) bring down what they cannot change? Now myself, I generally like to avoid demonstrations, so I understand if you don't care for them in any situation, but the anger behind them and its persistence in various actions do seem understandable to me.
Isn't there a big difference between Exxonn and WotC? That aside, I didn't say anybody had to like WotC. When I first heard the great wheel was coming down I was all set to stop buying books from WotC. I'm saying it never turned to hate for me. If they're putting out a game you don't like, then don't buy. You can freely discuss what you don't like about the game. I didn't post in the boycott thread or the what I don't like about 4e thread. But, why did putting out a new game make people angry when those people don't have to buy the new game. Pax is all day with 3.x and the retro clones, but he's still showing a lot of anger towards Wizards, and all they did was run a crappy marketing campaign for a game he doesn't have to buy.
Thus half of the equation in giving me what I love involved the necessity of what I emphatically did not want (edition change). So in an odd way, thanks, Wizards.
A case of Boethian providence?
BTW, is "tank" a hot new way to spell "thank" on the Interwebz? :D
The article referenced says something about Wizards tanking (going under). It's a play on that.
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But, why did putting out a new game make people angry when those people don't have to buy the new game. Pax is all day with 3.x and the retro clones, but he's still showing a lot of anger towards Wizards, and all they did was run a crappy marketing campaign for a game he doesn't have to buy.
It's not really putting out 4e that ticks me off. They have put new editions out before and they will again. I personally find 3.x to be a superior system to 4e and will therefore stick with it. The points of contention I have with WotC are:
1) The removal of a great resource (Dungeon and Dragon magazines) without putting up an alternative.
2) The way they have treated the 3PP (forcing an either/or option for 3.xe/4e support).
3) Personally costing me money with their PDF shenanigans. I did not find out about the PDF issue the night it kicked into effect and after the deadline. When there was an extension, my work schedule kept me from being able to take advantage of that very small window. The end result, I'm out twenty some-odd dollars in pdfs because of this nonsense.
And what you are taking as hate, I view more as a complete loss of respect and general disenchantment with a company that was once the flagship for our hobby for justifiable reasons.
1) The removal of a great resource (Dungeon and Dragon magazines) without putting up an alternative.
There are online versions of the magazines. By removing the print copies it allowed others to move into the vacuum like Kobold Quarterly.
2) The way they have treated the 3PP (forcing an either/or option for 3.xe/4e support).
The GSL(sp?) has been changed to allow more flexibility as Goodman's Dungeon Crawl Classic recently showed.
3) Personally costing me money with their PDF shenanigans. I did not find out about the PDF issue the night it kicked into effect and after the deadline. When there was an extension, my work schedule kept me from being able to take advantage of that very small window. The end result, I'm out twenty some-odd dollars in pdfs because of this nonsense.
In today's digital age it is upon every consumer to back up their electronic materials. It is not the fault of any company if a customer chooses not to do that.