Perception DC Modifiers

[stormRunner47]

Is there a more comprehensive list of Perception DC modifiers than is listed at d20pfsrd? Shouldn't things like cover and concealment increase the DC of Perception checks.

Just looking at cover there is Partial Cover, normal Cover, and Improved Cover - each which might feasibly make it more difficult to perceive something.

Similarly, concealment and its varying degrees feasibly makes creatures/objects more difficult to see. However, it seems that invisibility is the only thing associated with concealment that provides a DC modifier.

I am aware that concealment and cover interact with the Stealth skill and thereby indirectly alter the Perception DC by making it an opposed check, but what about for objects or creatures that dont have or choose not to make a Stealth roll - are there any static modifiers for cover or concealment i those cases.

Cover Example: Perception check to see a statue in the open vs. minimally covered by low wall vs. half covered by tree vs. almost completely obsured by foliage.

[stormRunner47]

Bump

[Lusinian]

I'm not really sure, but I think concealment would give nothing. It would be using the entry about unfavourable or terrible conditions on the Perception DC table, though. As for covers, like you, I did not see anything explicit, but I would assume that :

- if you're hiding something, use Stealth, or maybe Disguise depending your method (there's another thread on that, no definite ruling on it, but there was no uproar about it being wrong)

- if the item or the creature just happens to be covered, soft cover and partial cover would be nothing to terrible conditions, improved cover would be +10 (as per the improved cover entry) and total cover would be +15 (that one is a guess on my part). If it is not possible to see it, any Perception check involving only sight would automatically fail, of course, since you have to have some sense allowing you to perceive before trying to perceive.

So, those are modifiers ; they would be added to the "notice a visible creature - DC 0", quite like, for an invisible creature, if it's just there and active, a bit like invisible creatures that you have to make a DC 20 Perception check to notice, and then more to know where they are. (By the way, in the invisible entry, they tell you that being behind a door is +5 and being behing a stone wall is +15 on the Perception DC... that could be crossed with this cover Stealth modifier business.)

I'm not quite clear, I think, so here is how it would work (assuming I'm not wrong yet) :

There's a statue out in the open. Perception DC 0. Unless you're blind, you see it.

There's a statue minimally covered by low wall. That's I think what was supposed to be partial cover (of course, depending the wall, depending the statue...). Perception DC 0 (it's not hidden on purpose or anything) + 0 / 2 / 5 (depending the wall and the statue). Most of the time, you'll see it anyway, but random peasants with terrible Wisdom Modifier might miss it.

There's a statue half covered by a tree. That's improved cover. Perception DC 0 (same reasons) + 10. You'd have to be less handicapped than the previous to miss it, but even your most random people would notice automatically about half the time.

There's a statue almost completely obscured by foliage. That's total cover. Perception DC 0 + 15. Now that's still not hidden, random people would still notice it about a quarter of the time. But it's not in plain sight anymore.

Now, for active stuff which means anything not totally still, it's different, because you might hear it - hear it breathing, or going on with its life. You can't apply the same modifiers. Nothing short of total cover would give anything more than an unfavourable condition and even total cover (check the 'through a closed door' in the Perception entry) would only be +5 on most cases, then depend on the material : your foliage would be +0 or +2 in my opinion, walls might be lots more.

Now that's mainly guessing. Most of that stuff is just applying the unfavourable / terrible condition, and guessing it might work that way. I'm pretty well known in my groups as the only one who knows enough the rules for guessing in the holes, but that's not knowing the rules fully :)

As an ending note, as they don't actually give of bonuses, except for improved cover (and probably total cover you probably have improved cover if you have total cover), those modifiers wouldn't stack with making a Stealth check, unless the GM rules it as unfavourable/terrible conditions or grades it on obstacles such as doors/walls.

[maouse33]

If something isn't hiding, and you can see it, you can see it. So no, there isn't any modifier. Cover and concealment are the methods for determining if something is protected by the environment (light level, walls, other people, etc...). Perception is for noticing things which you can see, smell or hear. Perception has DCs for noticing things like hidden statues and minute details on a sculpture. Distance to the source (observed thing) is taken into account. Favorable conditions are pretty much it. "Yeh, it is a little hard to see from 30' away, make a perception at +5 DC because of the 30' and unfavorable light / limited view through the window. There might be something behind the stove, you are not sure." Wing it. Because, well, they didn't really need to get nitty gritty.