| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Shifters are proficient with Pointy Stick (Shortspear) and Slightly Longer Pointy Stick (Spear) but don't appear to be proficient with Longer Pointy Stick (Longspear).
Is this an oversight or an undocumented design feature, and if it is not a design feature, could we please get a clarification as it would be nice to have at least one weapon with Reach for circumstances where a Shifter may not want to be toe-to-toe with an opponent?
Thank you for your time in advance!
It's a documented design feature. Knowing how to use a 5-foot spear does not automatically mean you can use an 8-foot spear.
Shifters seem to have the same proficiencies as druids - eg, not many. They also can't use crossbows, javelins, blowguns, spiked gauntlets or brass knuckles.
So Shifters and druids cannot ever use Reach Weapons (unless they dump a Feat on it?)
Or use a trait to get a proficiency, or dip into another class that is proficient with longspear (pretty much any class).
Or they could wild-shape into something with natural reach.
Most of the druid's proficiencies go back to 3.0, with the exception that the longspear got dropped for 3.5 (and the scythe was later added for PF).
The Druid's weapon proficiencies make about as much sense as it's armor and alignment restrictions (i.e. absolutely none), but Paizo was rather timid about changing the CRB classes' basics.
The real problem here is of course the Shifter's writer's apparent inability to fathom a wildshape centric class that isn't strictly based on the Druid. Shifter is basically the crappy fanfic of classes - yeah, self-insert Mary Sue characters and gaping plotholes (in Pathfinder terms, every class feature stolen from an existing class without thinking about them) are to be expected.
But hey, at least they dropped the taboo on using any other weapon that Druid had in 3.0 ("Their spiritual oaths prohibit them from using weapons other than these.")!
Or use a trait to get a proficiency, or dip into another class that is proficient with longspear (pretty much any class).
Or they could wild-shape into something with natural reach.
...if they have the levels to actually, y'know, wildshape into something with natural reach.
With Druid, it's not as apparent because they have ranged spells... but Shifter has... at best... a sling? as distance projection until at least 4th level, if not later?
I know it's silly, but is it too much to want a reach weapon until Wild Shape comes online with a Reach build?
Also, how do you get the proficiency with a Trait not a Feat while staying in-class in Organized Play?
Most of the druid's proficiencies go back to 3.0, with the exception that the longspear got dropped for 3.5 (and the scythe was later added for PF).
The Druid's weapon proficiencies make about as much sense as it's armor and alignment restrictions (i.e. absolutely none), but Paizo was rather timid about changing the CRB classes' basics.The real problem here is of course the Shifter's writer's apparent inability to fathom a wildshape centric class that isn't strictly based on the Druid. Shifter is basically the crappy fanfic of classes - yeah, self-insert Mary Sue characters and gaping plotholes (in Pathfinder terms, every class feature stolen from an existing class without thinking about them) are to be expected.
But hey, at least they dropped the taboo on using any other weapon that Druid had in 3.0 ("Their spiritual oaths prohibit them from using weapons other than these.")!
Well, I can write off the proficiencies for druids. They are 9 level casters (so they can shoot lightning instead of using bows) and eventually eschew weapons entirely so they can turn into tigers. So Mrs. Moonclaw at druid boarding school wasn't very interested in teaching you about weapons you aren't really going to use for long anyway. She skipped that supplementary lesson herself anyway.
I will agree that they seem less stat crunchy and more "oh, look at the special". The elementalist archetype, for example... tells you your favorite season (...which gets weird when you get more than 1 element at level 5). And the fire aspect has 50/50 word count for fluff to mechanics (almost exactly equal- I counted).
I also agree that they could have taken a very different path. It seems like most of their actual features worth mentioning are tied up into their lesser version of wild shape. They could have simply gone with 'you stay humanoid, but you shift your form slightly to get special abilities'. That and regular weapons (I won't say full martial, but simple + bows would suffice). Shifters are supposed to be the less magical/more martial version of druids. And... I am not really seeing it.
Heck, for the base class, I'd almost count it as the "npc class" version of druid (like a warrior to a fighter). Elementalist archetype is alright (it provides that nice damage boosting mechanic which brings it on par with cavalier).
Or they could wild-shape into something with natural reach.
None of their Reach options come online until level 15.
The Lizard Aspect gets it with their tail at level 15, and while the Frog Aspect's Tongue is usable at level 8, it doesn't deal damage until level 15. Though the range on that tongue is very good.
Well, I can write off the proficiencies for druids. They are 9 level casters (so they can shoot lightning instead of using bows) and eventually eschew weapons entirely so they can turn into tigers. So Mrs. Moonclaw at druid boarding school wasn't very interested in teaching you about weapons you aren't really going to use for long anyway. She skipped that supplementary lesson herself anyway.
While I mostly agree with you, what exact weapons druid's are proficient with is still utterly nonsensical. For example, Druid's aren't proficient with the hanbō, which is literally half a quarterstaff (i.e. a plain round straight piece of wood 90cm long). Like, how could you possibly be not proficient with it? On the other hand, what about scimitar screams "nature"?
And the fire aspect has 50/50 word count for fluff to mechanics (almost exactly equal- I counted).
Unecessary description "that is so extravagant, ornate, or flowery as to break the flow and draw excessive attention to itself", i.e. purple prose. Common occurence in fanfics.
In case you're interested, I've proposed two possible ways the Shifter could have been made a good class here and here.
Also, how do you get the proficiency with a Trait not a Feat while staying in-class in Organized Play?
For example, Druid's aren't proficient with the hanbō, which is literally half a quarterstaff (i.e. a plain round straight piece of wood 90cm long). Like, how could you possibly be not proficient with it? On the other hand, what about scimitar screams "nature"?
There are reasons for these things. The scimitar was the nearest thing the game had to a traditional druid sickle. And the hanbo didn't exist at all.
They're not good reasons, I admit...
But Druid is already proficient with sickle, and has been ever since the original D&D according to this site.
And yes, Hanbo didn't exist in the CRB, but that's exactly the problem with specific proficiencies (although it would have been possible to add proficiencies in books like Adventure's Armory, just like those books add to weapon groups). I don't really see why not every PC class shouldn't be proficient with every simple weapon, to be honest. I mean, they are simple!