Kingmaker with opposing sides


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


So I have been thinking about starting to put together the foundations of a Kingmaker game where the players are not all parts of a single kingdom (though they can share rule over one if they wish to) but rather set it up so each player has their own separate kingdoms to run and build; musing diplomacy, alliances, treaties and going to war against each other. Does anyone have any experience with this? And do any other experienced DM's have any advice as to how I would handle certain aspects of the game between the players and their kingdoms?


If you want to simulate a group of adventurers having encounters with monsters, Pathfinder is pretty good for that.

What you're describing sounds more like a strategy boardgame.


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The kingdom building mini-game is fun enough for what it is (although personally I think the mass combat is pretty horrible) but it certainly isn't 'enough' to be a game on its own. It is also easy to 'break' although the revised rules are a bit better on that.

So if you are just planning on playing 'Kingdom Building' where the entire game is just running kingdoms, I don't think it will be very successful. And of course there aren't really any rules for alliances, trade or anything like that.

If you are planning on a traditional game where a standard party is also all nobles who rule their kingdom, that seems a little weird, especially if they are going to be enemies or even rivals. I mean are they going to get together between wars to go raid a dungeon together?

The only real option I can see for something like that really working is to almost run two games, something like each PC is a representative of a kingdom sent out to deal with some problem common too all, but although they are cooperating on this, they are still rivals. Each player would control a representative PC, but would also control a 'kingdom' and the two games would mostly be linked by the equivalent of letters from home.

So Sir James of Knightholm, while on a great quest to save the known world from the demon plague would receive reports of what his father and the council of Knightholm were doing (James and the King & Council being controlled by the same player) and could brag about the successes of his homeland to his old rival Alistair the Red, heir to the Hidden Vale, who is also part of this dread quest.

That could provide some of what you are looking for while keeping the kingdom building as an extra but not the whole game. I'd probably make it clear that their weren't going to be actual wars (it would be hard for a party to cooperate if one of their homelands was being invaded by another's) but to keep it interesting and competitive i'd figure out some sort of 'prizes' for the kingdom building. Something like extra consumable magic items being sent from home for best in various categories, not enough to unbalance the 'real' game, but enough to provide a bit more incentive and hopefully keep the players interested in both sides of the story. You could have it go the other direction as well, with success or failure on the PCs quest having an effect on their lands back home.

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