Hi all. I am currently playing my very first Pathfinder game, which is also my very first tabletop RPG.
I'm playing a Goblin Druid with a goblin dog animal companion that she rides as a mount.
Character-wise, I love her. She's a lot of fun. But I was invited to play very last minute, so I had no idea what I was doing and very little time to try to read up on anything about how I should be building my character. That resulted in a character that's been a little bit of a mess in combat. I'm not completely useless, but it has been a battle to try to stay alive at these lower levels.
We just hit level 3, and in trying to figure out a new feat for her, I found myself really struggling because I had no idea what direction I wanted to go with her.
I found the third party Wild Rider archetype that suited her perfectly and didn't conflict with anything so far, so the DM approved retconning that in. That helped a lot.
I'm thinking now, as unfocused as it will be, that I want to play her as a sort of versatile mounted combat caster? She's pretty squishy, so I can't charge up to the front lines all the time, but I am very mobile on my mount which can make for some very interesting applications in combat. So planning her future feats out, right now I have:
B1 – Mounted Combat
1 – Improved Initiative
3 –
B4 – Ride By Attack
5 – Echoing Spell
7 – Selective Spell
B8 – Trick Riding
9 – Improved Share Spells
11 –
B12 – Spirited Charge
13 –
15 –
B16 – Mounted Skirmisher
17 –
19 –
B20 – Beast Master? (Third Party)
[B# feats are bonus feats I get through the archetype. All but the first I was able to choose from a list, but I haven't gotten to clarify with the DM if any of the third party feats on the list that go with the archetype are on the table.]
I have a list of feats I'm considering, but I am open to suggestions. I am mostly looking for something for my level 3 feat, as I'll need that by next Wednesday (12/27/17) when we're due to have our next session. Nothing but mounted combat is set in stone though, so any of these could be changed if you have suggestions you think would work better.
Can you post your stat array?
And maybe a little about your character in terms of RP?
Are you interested in summoning? A very strong choice would be to take Augment Summoning (which also requires Spell Focus [conjuration]). It synergizes somewhat with your mounted playstyle, as being mounted lets you both move and spend a full round casting on the same turn.
Stats, with the racial modifications, are:
STR: 11
DEX: 15
CON: 9
INT: 15
WIS: 17
CHA: 13
(I don't remember what made me allocate them this way and think it was a good idea, but I definitely had no idea what I was doing. These are for sure set in stone though, we're I think 4 sessions in now?)
My character is true neutral. She does lots of weird goblin-y stuff. I'm really playing that part up. She has a tendency to make friends with those around her that aren't obviously hostile, though she has some of the goblin racism. She was raised by goblin dogs, her mount is her "baby brother". She is constantly eating and eats a lot of weird things. She has a magic item that lets her duplicate food items (infinite healing items with goodberries) and has been known to walk around with a trail of food items falling mysteriously out from under her big poncho. She does so much weird goblin stuff that everyone brushes off anything she does, which she uses to her advantage sometimes. She is smarter than she lets on to the party, though usually honest with them unless she has a specific reason not to be.
---
Toughness sounded like a good idea, it was one of the ones I was looking at, but my DM recommended against it? I'll look at it again.
I liked the idea of using the summoning spells, but was disappointed with the short duration and low damage potential at the lower levels which kind of turned me off of them. I'm not opposed to them though, I could see them being more helpful as I level up and can have a bonus attacker for longer. That does definitely look like a good feat if I go that route.
(I will most likely take the time to think about any suggestions for the next almost week I have until the next session before I commit, unless something absolutely perfect that I can't turn down gets suggested.)
You are right that low level summon spells are disappointing, but (1) they get better starting with Summon Nature's Ally III, and (2) taking Augment Summoning makes everything WAY better.
And yeah, with those ability scores I think summoning is a good route. Nice to have meat shields around when your Con is 9.
Since this is your first rpg, and first character, don't worry about is more than a few levels into the future. I say this because you will find that as you learn the game what you want to do with your character may change.
So.
If you're going the summons route, Id suggest summon sacred. And summon evil monster, solely for the pugwumpi. Of course you'd have to be evil.
The other way to would be additional traits. Magical lineage, Wayan spell hunter. For, say flame blade. Which ties into the goblin predilection for fire
Then take dazing, ride by etc.
Also recall that you can share buffs with your dog.
Sacred Summons and Summon Evil Monster only work with Summon Monster, not with Summon Nature's Ally.
You are right that low level summon spells are disappointing, but (1) they get better starting with Summon Nature's Ally III, and (2) taking Augment Summoning makes everything WAY better.
And yeah, with those ability scores I think summoning is a good route. Nice to have meat shields around when your Con is 9.
That's true, it definitely makes summons appealing and is part of what made me interested in them originally. Though I do have a party of bigger tankier people to hide behind too. I have literally used one as cover before. (Mostly joking, but still.)
Since this is your first rpg, and first character, don't worry about is more than a few levels into the future. I say this because you will find that as you learn the game what you want to do with your character may change.
That's a good point, but I also like to be prepared. The puzzling and planning things out part is a lot of fun. I'm a little addicted to character creation, I've been playing around with a couple other characters I'd like to play in the future. (I've got a mean Kobold Fighter build figured out.) This one is just tough because I'm not a conventional druid, and didn't plan that way around game mechanics so I feel like I'm trying to work backwards to make the game mechanics somehow make sense to the character.
If I plan now and change my mind later, no big deal. This way if I do stick to the plan, at least I can be smart about feats with prerequisite feats instead of bumbling around making a fairly weak build weaker by not using my level ups right. (Not as much fun when you almost die a lot and get a little afraid to engage. Really makes you want to buff up your character.)Have you discussed the idea of rearranging your stats with the GM? If it's you first time designing a character, adjusting a few things once you see how the game works is not unreasonable, IMHO.
I think it's a little late. I did bring up concerns about not building her smart a session or two ago, and he may have misunderstood what I said, but his response was that I shouldn't worry about it. I think he was worried about me putting the stats over the roleplay elements? But I've got roleplay in spades, I just want to be useful to the party/not constantly dying in combat.
I'm not terribly upset about my poor stat allotment, it suits the character. But if I'm working with that handicap, I do want to make sure I'm smart about every subsequent decision so I don't get her killed right away.
So.If you're going the summons route, Id suggest summon sacred. And summon evil monster, solely for the pugwumpi. Of course you'd have to be evil.
The other way to would be additional traits. Magical lineage, Wayan spell hunter. For, say flame blade. Which ties into the goblin predilection for fire
Then take dazing, ride by etc.
Also recall that you can share buffs with your dog.
If I'm reading this right, I don't believe I meet the prerequisites for sacred summons? Unless I've missed something. I know druids are divine casters, but I don't believe I have the aura class feature? I am also pretty set about being True Neutral. It's also probably late to change that, I've pretty well established her character in game. (Though her deity is evil, so there's that.)
I'm trying to figure out what you mean by magic traits? I don't think I've read anything about being able to take traits later? I don't know if my DM's way of doing traits is typical, but it was a roll for traits not a pick some traits kind of thing. Those traits I definitely can't change now. I also might be misunderstanding what they're for? I can use Flame Blade as a level 2 druid spell?
What do you mean by sharing buffs? I know I have share spells automatically, but that is choosing between casting the spell for me or my animal companion. Are you talking about that or something else? If I can apply more things to my goblin dog that would be great.
The feat additional traits will let you choose 2 more traits. I suggested two.
This would let you create a dazing flame blade, or dazing produce flame or dazing heat metal or dazing flaming entangle.
Regarding share spells, I was just attempting to remind you that you could boost dogvwith "you" spells.
I wasnt sure you were locked into druid. If you are disregard summon monster info.
Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. I forgot that was a feat.
I'll look into that more, though I'm not sure I want to be too fire-focused. It does suit the playing up the goblin part, but there is an ifrit in the party too so we've already got two characters that can burn things down without upping my fire spells.
And the more I think about it, I should probably be careful about the fire spells I take because the DM likes to pit me against antagonists that like bombs. He's doing a nemesis for each character, and mine likes bombs.
I am excited about the share spells, that could definitely come in handy, but I probably need most of them more than my goblin dog. He's got twice my health already. (M health rolls were bad, his were great.)
Definitely locked into druid. Next session will be I think our 5th, so its still early on, but we've leveled up twice and established our characters. Retconning things at this point is only potentially allowed if it doesn't conflict with things that have already happened.
Weapon Finesse?
At 4th level, boost Con (it's the same as Toughness, but also gives you a +1 to Fortitude saves). At 8th level, boost Wisdom.
Do you use traits? Can you retrain Improved Initiative?
If so, re-train Improved Initiative for Spell Focus conjuration, take Augment Summoning at 3rd, plan on taking Natural Spell at 5th (so you can cast spells while wildshaped (unless your archetype traded that out)) and take the Reactionary trait for +2 Initiative (or one of a dozen other traits that does the same thing!).
It's a pretty basic druid build, but it's a classic for a reason.
How big is your party? If it's pretty small (2 to 4 PCs), summoning is a powerful option. If you have 5 or more PCs, summoning can quickly fill up the battlefield and make combat a grind. You will also want to make a cheat sheet for every type of monster you plan on summoning so you don't have to flip through books, add +4 to Str and Con, and recalculate attack rolls, damage rolls, CMB, CMD, hit points, Fortitude saves, Climb and Swim checks on the fly.
In addition to the Big Six Magic Items, you will probably want to get a Rod of Extend Spell. It helps with summon nature's ally spells, buff spells, produce flame and call lightning, etc.
I looked at weapon finesse but was disappointed with the amount of difference it made when I tested out plugging it in on Roll20. It's still on my list of possibilities, but I'm not sure.
I don't need to retrain anything to switch feats around because we switched me to the archetype. Mounted Combat was my 1st level feat, but the archetype gives it to me as a bonus feat so now I can choose a new 1st level. Improved Initiative was just up there because that's what I was thinking of taking. So that can be switched for anything right now.
I'm pretty sure I have no way of taking new traits without taking the Additional Traits feat. My DM does traits and magic items differently, from what I can tell. I definitely don't have access to new magic items. (From what I've been told, he likes to make them a little more rare and difficult to get a hold of because it seems silly to be able to just go out and buy a powerful magical item.) We each started with two magic items, one we know how to use and one we don't know anything about. The one I know is the item that duplicates food.
My party is a little complicated. ^^;;
It started out with 4 players, but one's work schedule doesn't match up well so she sometimes has to miss. She's not really a combat character anyways though. Because we were encouraged to build the characters we wanted independently and not plan for a party, we ended up lacking in characters that can enter towns and interact, and in bulky characters that are built to be up front. So the DM gave us a cavalier NPC.
Then someone else joined late as I think a spiritualist? He's got his spirit and a mount.
So we started a little small, but with all the bonus characters mixed in there we do have kind of a lot going on. I don't think anyone would complain if I summoned things though.
I wasn't sure what direction to go with my goblin once I started learning more about the game, because initially I looked at the druid abilities and was excited for wildshape. But that didn't make sense with how I started her out - what little building I did was for a mounted character, because that sounded fun in the roleplay context. If I switched to being focused on being a wildshape character, the mounted stuff and 1st level feat I picked would go to waste. So now I'm trying to gear towards being a mounted caster, which better suits the character anyways.
I figure I will still use wildshape and summoning as the need arises, but I was aiming more towards all the other druid spells, so I'm a little reluctant to dedicate so many feats towards things I don't foresee myself using as much. To me, those will more be nice hat tricks to save for when I need them, rather than my main focus.
I could see spellcasting in wildshape being useful, but if I don't wildshape much it doesn't necessarily need to be prioritized.
I'm not crazy about burning two feats on summoning. As nice as it' be to have stronger summons, I've yet to use them and may still rarely if ever use them.
What I've used the most have been spells like Shillelagh, Speak with Animals, and Flaming Sneeze. Kind of all over the place, but they suit the character and have been versatile and helpful. We've been encountering a lot of goblins and goblin dogs, I've used speak with animals more than once to get goblin dogs to come join me, I don't feel like I necessarily need summoning if I'm just going to get the same animals from those kinds of interactions?
Sorry, I feel like I just keep kind of shooting things down, but this is why I was struggling with this so much. The obvious choices just aren't the best fit with this character.
Everything you are saying still makes me think summoning is the strongest option. Lack of frontliners (besides the NPC cavalier) means more meat shields will be appreciated. Lack of magic items means summons are stronger in comparison. Your stats don't lend themselves to Wild Shape, as low Str means you're unlikely to hit and low Con means you're likely to die.
I know summoning an eagle for one round feels like a waste, but once you're summoning wolverines and lions you'll see how awesome it is. Or you can summon a whole pack of goblin dogs.
Yes, it's two feats, but they'll pay off for the entire rest of your career, so I really would say it's the best choice.
Keep in mind that while your stats aren't great for wildshaping into a combat monster, you can still get some utility out of your wildshapes. (At higher levels, obvs.) Being able to turn into forms with fly speed, or burrow speed, etc, is handy.
I'd probably overall ditto the summons idea. Even the level 2 summons have some of that same out of combat utility I mentioned-- in three rounds your summoned baby earth elemental can stick its head through a wall and back out and at least tell you how many bad guys are on the other side. Note that you may want to pick up the elemental languages to facilitate clear communication between you and your 'scouts', if you go that route.
Crank your wisdom with magic items whenever you get the chance, and make sure to keep an eye towards maintaining your mobility for both you and your goblin dog as you go along picking spells, etc. (I.e., your ability to be a squishy caster who can pull back safely from the front lines on your dog gets badly wrecked if you or the dog get grappled, entangled, etc-- so have tools in your kit for that. Potions of jester's jaunt have saved my life as a squishy caster more than once. At higher levels you'll have access to freedom of movement, air walk, etc.)
With 6 skill points per level, you can afford to invest in Linguistics to learn the languages of what you plan on summoning: Ignan, Terran, Aquan, Auran, Sylvan, Celestial, Infernal, Abyssal, Aklo, etc. After you put 2 to 4 ranks in Ride.
Druids are complicated classes, so it is worth investing in doing a lot of pre-game research into the class. There are lots of peculiar interactions with some of the various class features, and even more when you look into feats ad spells.
You probably want to also put ranks into Handle Animal, Knowledge nature, Perception, Spellcraft, and Survival. The first 2 you can afford to dabble in, the last 3 you probably want to max out.
For feats, I again suggest:
1. Spell Focus conjuration (is also useful when using cure spells against undead)
3. Augment Summoning (begins coming on line, and only gets better with higher level summon nature's ally spells.
5. Natural Spell
7. Extend Spell (double the duration of summon nature's ally, buff spells, debuff spells, battlefield control spells, etc.), Craft Wondrous Item, Scribe Scroll, Craft Wand, or Craft Arms and Armor. If the GM isn't going to be providing you with magic items, make your own.
Alternatively, consider Improved Counterspell if you are encountering enemy spellcasters. Druid "big blast" spells are level 4 (flamestrike) and enemy "big blast" spells are often level 3 (fireball and lightning bolt), so you can ready an action to counterspell and save a lot of future healing by blocking an enemy invocation spell. And since druids get an animal companion and often summon allies, you, as the player, will not be bored by having your character do something passive, since you can control and "be active" by having your animal companion and summoned allies do the fighting. Or if you've boosted your animal companion's Int to 3+, grab a Teamwork Feat and have your animal companion get the same Teamwork Feat.
9. More of the same, or begin considering getting Quicken Spell.
11. Really consider getting Quicken Spell, or if you have it already, Spell Penetration.
13. Get a 3rd metamagic feat (Dazing Spell? Rime Spell?)
15. Spell Perfection
17. Greater Spell Penetration or more metamagic?
19. Ditto? Divine Interference?