So after preparing for an encounter that includes both Tanglefoot Bags and Caltops I realized that the speed reductions for both of these items do not have any specific type and could arguably be due to different sources. One entangling your legs with the other impairing your feet.
So the question is, do these two speed reductions stack? For example:
A human with a move speed of 30 ft. steps on some Caltrops which successfully injury him, reducing his movement speed reduced to 15 ft.
Then someone hits him with a tanglefoot bag, and on a successful Reflax save becomes entangled reducing his speed by half of his now 15 ft. movement speed to 7 ft., which would then be rounded down to 5 ft. following the rounding rules.
A tanglefoot bag is a small sack filled with tar, resin, and other sticky substances. When you throw a tanglefoot bag at a creature (as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet), the bag comes apart and goo bursts out, entangling the target and then becoming tough and resilient upon exposure to air. An entangled creature takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity and must make a DC 15 Reflex save or be glued to the floor, unable to move. Even on a successful save, it can move only at half speed. Huge or larger creatures are unaffected by a tanglefoot bag. A flying creature is not stuck to the floor, but it must make a DC 15 Reflex save or be unable to fly (assuming it uses its wings to fly) and fall to the ground. A tanglefoot bag does not function underwater.
A caltrop is a four-pronged metal spike crafted so that one prong faces up no matter how the caltrop comes to rest. You scatter caltrops on the ground in the hope that your enemies step on them or are at least forced to slow down to avoid them. One 2-pound bag of caltrops covers an area 5 feet square.
Each time a creature moves into an area covered by caltrops (or spends a round fighting while standing in such an area), it runs the risk of stepping on one. Make an attack roll for the caltrops (base attack bonus +0) against the creature. For this attack, the creature's shield, armor, and deflection bonuses do not count. If the creature is wearing shoes or other footwear, it gets a +2 armor bonus to AC. If the attack succeeds, the creature has stepped on a caltrop. The caltrop deals 1 point of damage, and the creature's speed is reduced by half because its foot is wounded. This movement penalty lasts for 24 hours, until the creature is successfully treated with a DC 15 Heal check, or until it receives at least 1 point of magical healing. A charging or running creature must immediately stop if it steps on a caltrop. Any creature moving at half speed or slower can pick its way through a bed of caltrops with no trouble.
Caltrops may not work against unusual opponents.
I could also see where a character affected by multiple speed reducing effects only applies the single worst effect similar to how non-stacking bonuses work, but I haven't found anything that specifies this from a source in a book or on the forums.
1/2 x 1/2 = 1/3
Huh?
2 x 2 = 4
1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4
1/4 x 30 = 7.5
Is there a rule or something I'm missing?
Perfect Tommy is referring to the rule that x2 x2 = x3, that is, two doublings is a tripling. But I do not believe that it applies to division.
AFAIK, your human is at 7.5' movement. This isn't quite the same as 5' since (a) you can go 15' with a double move, and (b) you can still take a 5' step, which you can't do if your move really is <= 5'.
Perfect Tommy is referring to the rule that x2 x2 = x3, that is, two doublings is a tripling. But I do not believe that it applies to division.
AFAIK, your human is at 7.5' movement. This isn't quite the same as 5' since (a) you can go 15' with a double move, and (b) you can still take a 5' step, which you can't do if your move really is <= 5'.
Ok, thanks! I'm not familiar with the two doublings is a tripling rule. My curiosity is piqued though.
And if the rounding rule doesn't apply I can see the speed coming out to 7.5ft. Especially with your point regarding a double move. I'd imagine a single move at that speed would still always be just a 5ft square since you can't divide the movement any lower.
But as to my original question, does anyone know of any rules or FAQs that address the two slowing effects stacking?
Ok, thanks! I'm not familiar with the two doublings is a tripling rule. My curiosity is piqued though.Perfect Tommy is referring to the rule that x2 x2 = x3, that is, two doublings is a tripling. But I do not believe that it applies to division.
AFAIK, your human is at 7.5' movement. This isn't quite the same as 5' since (a) you can go 15' with a double move, and (b) you can still take a 5' step, which you can't do if your move really is <= 5'.
It is hidden in the introduction, which nobody looks at more than once.
Multiplying: When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.
I think of it as "x2 really means +100%," from which you get x2 x2 = +100% + 100% = +200% = x3, and so on.
And if the rounding rule doesn't apply I can see the speed coming out to 7.5ft. Especially with your point regarding a double move. I'd imagine a single move at that speed would still always be just a 5ft square since you can't divide the movement any lower.
Yes, exactly.
But as to my original question, does anyone know of any rules or FAQs that address the two slowing effects stacking?
The only kinda-relevant bit I can think of is the double movement cost rule, which states
Double Movement Cost: When your movement is hampered in some way, your movement usually costs double. For example, each square of movement through difficult terrain counts as 2 squares, and each diagonal move through such terrain counts as 3 squares (just as two diagonal moves normally do).
If movement cost is doubled twice, then each square counts as 4 squares (or as 6 squares if moving diagonally). If movement cost is doubled three times, then each square counts as 8 squares (12 if diagonal) and so on. This is an exception to the general rule that two doublings are equivalent to a tripling.
Of course, "speed cut in half" is not quite the same thing as "movement costs double," but you could consider it a precedent.
But as to my original question, does anyone know of any rules or FAQs that address the two slowing effects stacking?The only kinda-relevant bit I can think of is the double movement cost rule, which states
Of course, "speed cut in half" is not quite the same thing as "movement costs double," but you could consider it a precedent.Double Movement Cost: When your movement is hampered in some way, your movement usually costs double. For example, each square of movement through difficult terrain counts as 2 squares, and each diagonal move through such terrain counts as 3 squares (just as two diagonal moves normally do).
If movement cost is doubled twice, then each square counts as 4 squares (or as 6 squares if moving diagonally). If movement cost is doubled three times, then each square counts as 8 squares (12 if diagonal) and so on. This is an exception to the general rule that two doublings are equivalent to a tripling.
I would agree, this looks like exactly what I was looking for as long as there is not something more specific that overrules this. Thanks again.
Yeah, in retrospect I think sonic is more correct.