Goblins set your PCs on fire. When do they take damage?

[johnnymac]

I was playing in a game over the weekend and we had some problems adjudicating some of the common "set your PCs on fire items"

1. Goblin throws Alchemist fire:

Alchemist fire says:

A direct hid does 1d6 fire damage. Easy enough. On the following round the target takes 1d6 additional points of damage. If desired, the target can use a full-round action to attempt toe extinguish the flames before taking this additional damage.

During round 3 with an initiative of 10, the goblin hits the PC with alchemist fire. The PC has initiative 18. He takes 1d6 points of damage. Round 4 happens. It is the PC's turn.

- Does he take the damage then, in round 4? or wait until round 5?

The opposite: During round 3, with an initiative of 18, the goblin hits the PC with alchemist fire. The PC has an initiative of 10. Still during round 3, it becomes the PC's turn.

- Does he take damage then, in the same round the goblin threw it?
- When does he get to save?

I suppose the same question exists for other ongoing damage effects, like acid arrow. When is the damage applied in each case?

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

CRB wrote:

When the rules refer to a "full round", they usually mean a span of time from a particular initiative count in one round to the same initiative count in the next round. Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on.

Keep track of what initiative count the fire/whatever hit them, and inflict more damage when it comes up again. Saving throws always happen just before the damage (or whatever) takes effect, in the same initiative count.

[thaX]

Fire hits on the targets init count, as it is the target that is on fire. This is the same for Bleed, Poison, and other targeted continuing effects.

[Cevah]

Alchemist’s fire wrote:

A direct hit deals 1d6 points of fire damage. Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the flask hits takes 1 point of fire damage from the splash. On the round following a direct hit, the target takes an additional 1d6 points of damage. If desired, the target can use a full-round action to attempt to extinguish the flames before taking this additional damage. Extinguishing the flames requires a DC 15 Reflex save. Rolling on the ground provides the target a +2 bonus on the save. Leaping into a large body of water or magically extinguishing the flames automatically smothers the fire.

The target has a chance to avoid damage by using their full round action. That save occurs at the end, so the damage cannot happen before the end of their full round action.

Unlike many things, the damage occurs on the affected's turn, and not the thrower's turn.

Sequence is:
goblin's turn: hits, target takes damage and catches fire
target's turn: attempt to put out fire, and if fail, take damage
or
target's turn: do something else, and take damage at the end of the turn. [Technically, just before their next turn.]

/cevah