Cavalier Pony or War Pony as Starting Mount Stats

[Fynnzle Wyddlebower]

If a small cavalier takes a Pony as the starting mount and has the 'combat trained' as a class feature, would it take the template of the war pony (linked below):

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/animals/horse/pony/pony-w ar/

Or would you still have to wait for the level four advancement for the benefit to be received? Any explanation on this would be helpful!

[Nefreet]

d20pfsrd, despite the name, is actually not affiliated with Paizo or PFS. It is a third party fan site, and can't be used as a reference for PFS.

You'd use the pony statistics from the Core Rulebook.

[Fynnzle Wyddlebower]

No I realize that they are third party but was looking for the official source material that may clarify; they often have the source listed but on some pages I know they don't (in this case).

I will say that otherwise ponies as mounts seem pretty ineffectual if there is no upgrade when they receive combat training.

[Nefreet]

They get a decent upgrade. +2 Str, +2 Con and their hooves become primary attacks.

I mean compared to like a pouncing Tiger or even a wolf they won't hold a candle (partly due to lack of opposable thumbs), but they're a decently tough mount for like a Lance/Spirited Charge build, where you want your mount to survive a few hits.

[Fynnzle Wyddlebower]

Yeah I was thinking that too, so I will just have to consider more, but I do wish if there *were* such an upgrade in a published book they would have cited it (a lot of legit stuff they don't either so alas).

[Nefreet]

Maybe I'm not understanding what your question is.

What sort of "upgrade" were you thinking of?

[Fynnzle Wyddlebower]

Sorry not upgrade, just the 'war pony' template.

[DesolateHarmony]

Nefreet wrote:

Maybe I'm not understanding what your question is.

What sort of "upgrade" were you thinking of?

The difference between a horse and a heavy horse in the bestiary is the advanced template (simple template). In the listing for horse, pony it also mentioned that there are tougher ponies (though not called heavy ponies) with the advanced template, too.

In the writeup for the paladin class, under divine bond it mentions that the paladin often gets a heavy horse. "This mount is usually a heavy horse (for a Medium paladin) or a pony (for a Small paladin)..." But then, it goes on to say that: "This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the paladin's level as her effective druid level."

So, I believe Fynnle's question might be related to "where's the advanced template, which can make the pony into a war pony?", since most interpret the 'functions as a druid's animal companion' means that you cannot add the template to a paladin's mount.

[Nefreet]

Got it.

[Fynnzle Wyddlebower]

Yeah that is what it came down to for me, it makes sense that this could be done with pony but is ill defined.

[Starglim]

It can't be done with a horse or pony companion.

DesolateHarmony wrote:

In the listing for horse, pony it also mentioned that there are tougher ponies (though not called heavy ponies) with the advanced template, too.

I like to think (and got this from someone else, years ago, IIRC) they're called dwarven ponies.

[Ascalaphus]

Simply put, animal companions/mounts don't use the Advanced Template. They use the Druid rules for generating a companion that advances according to your character level instead.

When they talk about a paladin's horse being "heavy", it's flavor text indicating it's not some dainty show horse. When acquired at level 5 the paladin's horse has strength 19, which increases to 20 at level 6; comparable to a heavy war horse from the book. After that, it jut gets heavier and heavier.