How Do Vesk Throw Down In Melee?

[TheWheelWeaves]

I'm trying to clear up some pedantry when it comes to how a Vesk's natural weapons work. Specifically, how they wield them.

In the racial text it says "Vesk are always considered armed," and they can cause "lethal damage with unarmed strikes." Nowhere in the text does it mention with what. Headbutt, tail, claws? All of the above?

In the weapons section it says "You can attack with a weapon (or threaten an area with it, for all melee weapons except unarmed strikes) only if you are wielding it with the correct number of hands." We've already deduced that the Vesk's natural weapons threaten, but how do you wield them? Can you hold a big ol' gun and still threaten?

Finally, improved unarmed strike says "Normal: You don’t threaten any squares with unarmed attacks, and you must have a hand free to make an unarmed attack." RAW, this would lead me to believe that in order to threaten with the natural attack (remember, they are listed as unarmed strikes in the racial text) while your hands are full you'd need this feat. However, in spirit you'd think that you could hold your BFG and slap a clown with your tail.

What say you? What did I miss?

[Wei Ji the Learner]

I think it's entirely possible to kick someone, or headbutt them, or shoulder-check them, etc, while still having both hands occupied, as it's as much as facet of the entire race being trained as warriors from birth, even the merchants and diplomats?

But that's just my take on it, and it can also explain why they're kind of terrifying on some levels?

[KingOfAnything]

Vesk are described as having claws, a bite, and a tail slap.

"Vesk are always considered armed," that means they are always wielding their natural weapons, even when holding a big ol' gun, and don't need a free hand to threaten or attack.

[oldskool]

I raised a similar question last night (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uodg?Unarmed-Attacks-vs-Natural-Weapons-Alien ).

Mostly in regards to how natural weapons interact, if at all, with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat since new races with the same EX ability are far more descriptive in what it does.

As KingOfAnything states, the physical description for Vesk includes claws, teeth, horns, and a tail. Furthermore, the tail slap is called out again in the same paragraph regarding Vesk martial artists. So I think, for the purpose of this discussion, it is safe to assume a Vesk can threaten in melee range while holding a two handed ranged weapon if they can reasonably tail slap, bite, claw, or gore with horns. However, given that the new material is showing more descriptive uses of this EX ability, I wouldn't mind some more clarity over the current vague description.

[MageHunter]

Yes, Vesk martial arts incorporate the tail.

It's really confusing when humans mimic it...

[EC Gamer Guy]

That does explain where Twerking came from though.

MageHunter wrote:

Yes, Vesk martial arts incorporate the tail.

It's really confusing when humans mimic it...

[TheWheelWeaves]

oldskool wrote:

I raised a similar question last night...Mostly in regards to how natural weapons interact, if at all, with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat since new races with the same EX ability are far more descriptive in what it does.

I got so wrapped up in whether they could I didn't even consider what they dealt. Jeez. The plot thickens.

I haven't had a chance to look over the new material, but what you described certainly does raise some eyebrows.

[oldskool]

TheWheelWeaves wrote:

I got so wrapped up in whether they could I didn't even consider...

And that's how we get dinosaurs running rampant on remote island tourist attractions!

I feel like this is splitting hairs over nothing in the long run, because the damage of natural weapons or unarmed strikes (even with the feat) isn't exactly overshadowing weapon options. However, that doesn't stop players from trying to make an entire build around the feature so for my gaming table it is worth noting.

Also, I'm in the process of converting the monk over to Starfinder and I'm pretty sure I'm just going to ensure the class has very descriptive text on what doesn't improve the damage.

For a game system that seems to go out of its way to ensure no one race has an exceptional advantage, the Vesk have an exceptional advantage as written for unarmed combat. Even if that advantage isn't amazing when compared to weapons.

[baggageboy]

Unarmed strikes are great though if you are a mainly ranged combatant fighting other ranged combatants in close quarters. Shoot them, stand next to them, if they try to shoot you "kick" them for extra "free" damage. It's hard to turn down free...